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 Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 4 days
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 I think I might finally become a Libertarian 
#4793235 - 10/12/05 02:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I used to think Republicans were a lesser of two evils, that they were more rational and for limited government. But now I see that a vote for either party is a vote for authoritarian federalism and an establishment that has spent the last 80 years destroying civil liberties. People now take it for granted that the government should be able to put you in jail for doing harmless things to yourself that don't affect anyone else. Everyone knows: drugs are bad, if you do drugs you are bad, bad people belong in jail, and it has gone on for so long that the masses accept this. If the government had perfect law enforcement capabilites a whole 45% of Americans would be in jail, but we still do not question the governments right to squelche free choice of the individual. They won't let you end your life when you are dying a slow and painful death, they won't let you alter your consciousness with drugs that are non-addictive and physically harmless and enforce collective punishment people responsible people in jail because irresponsible people get themselves into trouble with drugs. Even with prostitution, we only make the situation worse with a black market.
Bush is not, neither would Kerry, nominating Clarence Thomas or William Rhenquist type judges who believe in Liberty and States Rights. He has nominated Federalists who give him any power he wants. To the two parties it's only about abortion and affirmative action, the issue of the Government's ability to take away your civil liberties is off the table for both of them, and is the most unnoticed casualty. The Constitution takes a back seat to trivial political issues.
I cannot support a systematic policy of Prohibitionist Government and unfortunately both major parties not only support this but believe it is a Constitutional Right of the government and thanks to years of propaganda so do the masses.
Libertarianism starts to sound appealing. It's too bad that their laize fair policies don't work as well when applied to businesses and organizations. The Government should protect people from each other, not themselves, and it seems that lax regulation of the private sector would be very unethical given human nature to exploit others. That said maybe Libertarians are the best hope we have.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
Edited by Divided_Sky (10/12/05 02:36 PM)
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MikeOLogical
Doctor ofShroomology
Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 4,133
Loc: florida
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4793537 - 10/12/05 03:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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i wouldn't want to become a libertarian, because then i'd have to buy a suit thats too big for me, drive a crappy electric car, and hang around the courthouse preaching jury nullification 
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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars. 
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 bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4793608 - 10/12/05 03:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
That said maybe Libertarians are the best hope we have.
They're the most dangerous party in the country when it comes to domestic policy.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater
Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4793672 - 10/12/05 03:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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As long as you don't start making shocking posts about taxation being theft, needlessly arming yourself to the teeth for the coming revolt against the goverment, or insisting that I start paying my electric bills with bullion, it sounds like a good plan.
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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 2 days
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Gijith]
#4793683 - 10/12/05 04:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ypu can tell the Libertarians have come of age when they have their own lunatic fringe
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Los_Pepes
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: zappaisgod]
#4793850 - 10/12/05 04:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 4 days
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Los_Pepes]
#4793879 - 10/12/05 04:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought about the Green Party but those guys are totally ridiculous. I can't stand all the stupid shit from the left but I am slowly finding myself in that quadrant. I took the political compass again and it put in the same spot as Ralph Nader!
I don't like libertarian economic, public health or environmental policy but when I look to the Left they are just nuts and I could never support them.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Los_Pepes
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Los_Pepes]
#4793941 - 10/12/05 04:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Palestinian Martyrs Triumphant
By Genevieve Cora Fraser
Bodies borne aloft
Shut into death's release
Float in caskets swaying
On a sea of Arab hands
Palestinian assassinated
Remains charred as on a pyre
Are shielded in Prophet Green
Strew with floral offerings
Israeli forces occupied
With treacherous plots
Foment a reign of terror
Exploded in their minds
Yassin's death beats time
Alive at spirt's door
He welcomes home
The disheartened
To drink at unity's well
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794017 - 10/12/05 05:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
That said maybe Libertarians are the best hope we have.
They're the most dangerous party in the country when it comes to domestic policy.
No, that would be the Republicrats(one party posing as two).
Divided_Sky, I applaud your decision. While I no longer adhere as strictly to their ideology as I used to, I still think they are what this nation needs right now. I currently think of myself as a Green Libertarian. I support small government, smart tax policy, state's rights, and individual rights, but I also support peace, ecological wisdom, and social responsibility(if only we'd move to a Georgist system, we could achieve this without the monstrosity that is the welfare state, but for now I consider such social programs to be a necessary evil). I still lean more towards the Libertarian side, but there are some Green Party candidates whom I might consider voting for, especially in local elections. One thing I don't plan on going back to is the lesser of two evils strategy. Whether Libertarian or Green, I plan to support third-party politics in America until we can get through to the duopoly and push for real progress.
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nonick
Stranger
Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 537
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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 Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Silversoul]
#4794134 - 10/12/05 05:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"I think I might finally become a libertarian."
good for you. 
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 4 days
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Silversoul]
#4794145 - 10/12/05 05:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I think we both see pretty much eye to eye on things now except I am more ambivalent/sympathetic to some Bush foreign policy initiatives.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4794220 - 10/12/05 05:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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i took the political compass quiz today and i was just a tad to the left on the economic scale. 
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Silversoul]
#4794379 - 10/12/05 06:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
No, that would be the Republicrats(one party posing as two).
Who would quell the riots caused by the USLP's social darwinist domestic policies after they radically downsize the military and police forces?
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794524 - 10/12/05 06:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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You know, that link you gave me on why socialism is better than libertarianism has to be the most benighted thing I've ever read.  Thanks for sending it to me though.
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Unagipie]
#4794672 - 10/12/05 06:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Anarchy, silly.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794692 - 10/12/05 07:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok?
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Unagipie]
#4794772 - 10/12/05 07:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Libertarianism at home with neo-con foreign policy would be heaven!
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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: looner2]
#4794780 - 10/12/05 07:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol @ socialism and anarchy
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Redstorm]
#4794821 - 10/12/05 07:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol @ poverty and capitalism
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794827 - 10/12/05 07:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
lol @ poverty and capitalism
Europes socialism is doing great right about now. It didn't do so bad after the war however, but then again our capitalist system literally gave them the money to build their welfare states.
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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794833 - 10/12/05 07:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Since everyone would do just dandy in an anarchic system? I bet you'd be pissed when someone decided they were stronger than you and took your property for themselves.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: looner2]
#4794834 - 10/12/05 07:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said:
Quote:
bukkake said:
lol @ poverty and capitalism
Europes socialism is doing great right about now. It didn't do so bad after the war however, but then again our capitalist system literally gave them the money to build their welfare states.
Fortunately, 3/4's of Americans believe in universal healthcare and improved social infrastructures. Unfortunately, our government does not care about what the majority of Americans believe in.
Quote:
I bet you'd be pissed when someone decided they were stronger than you and took your property for themselves.
I would if I was obsessed with land masses and slabs of concrete on the Earth.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794857 - 10/12/05 07:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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By property, I meant you personal belongings. When you were forced out of your house and had all of you personal items taken from you, I bet you wouldn't be too happy.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: wilshire]
#4794862 - 10/12/05 07:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said:
i took the political compass quiz today and i was just a tad to the left on the economic scale.
I thought something was up when I brought up one of Karl Marx's ideas in a thread you made in S&P and you actually agreed with him. I was chuckling to myself: "Haw haw, mushmaster's a commie!" 
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Redstorm]
#4794876 - 10/12/05 07:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wouldn't in our current capitalist, individualistic society. That would be counter-productive to my own being.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794881 - 10/12/05 07:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
Quote:
Paradigm said:
No, that would be the Republicrats(one party posing as two).
Who would quell the riots caused by the USLP's social darwinist domestic policies after they radically downsize the military and police forces?
No one would have to, cuz the current underclass would be too busy becoming successful entrepreneurs when drugs, gambling, and prostitution are legalized and income taxes and corporate welfare are abolished.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794884 - 10/12/05 07:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
I wouldn't in our current capitalist, individualistic society. That would be counter-productive to my own being.
Huh?
I thought we were talking about your utopian system of anarchy?
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: bukkake]
#4794901 - 10/12/05 07:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
Fortunately, 3/4's of Americans believe in universal healthcare and improved social infrastructures. Unfortunately, our government does not care about what the majority of Americans believe in.
Just curious: How can one be an anarchist while supporting state-run health care? How would you expect health care to be run in your ideal anarchist society where the state doesn't exist?
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Redstorm]
#4794916 - 10/12/05 07:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not a materialistic person, so I would not much care. Perhaps similiar to the way tribal society worked for Native Americans for thousands(?) of years. They were quite apathetic showering their eventual murderers and invaders with goods, no?
There is an abundance of agriculture and necessities in the world without needing to murder, rape, and beat each other over materials.
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bukkake
Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: I think I might finally become a Libertarian [Re: Silversoul]
#4794972 - 10/12/05 08:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Just curious: How can one be an anarchist while supporting state-run health care? How would you expect health care to be run in your ideal anarchist society where the state doesn't exist?
I support state-run health care under current societal standards. Everyone should be able to receive free health care, free education; they pay taxes. Of course, they aren't given these "perverse" socialist luxuries many people in PAL dislike. At least, in America we don't have this. Every other industrialized country has some form of universal health coverage. Someone can correct that.
I'd expect it done similiar to the way shamanism was many years ago, but we're medically/technologically advanced enough that we do not need something as primitive as "spirits", herbs and etheonogens for medicines. A skillful worker such as a doctor. Assorted jobs for assorted individuals by their own choice.
If anyone would like to continue this, create another thread. I always feel dirty using someone else's thread to go on an off-topic debate.
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