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chefnub
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Registered: 10/10/05
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Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Need some critique for a noobie
#4782315 - 10/10/05 12:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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We just had a failure and I apologize for the lack of pics. Its our first time trying this so I'm just going to run down our proceedure and some of the concerns we had and maybe someone can find some reason in all this for our failure.
So... We followed the Erowid guide. We used 1/2 pint jars(12) and carefully measured Vermiculite and ground our own rice flour. Everything seemed like I expected here except that we had ALOT of leftover substrate after mixing them.(is all vermiculite that coarse?) The only deviation in the sterilization process that we did is that instead of covering the jars with tinfoil I simply screwed the tinfoil down with the jar cap. After we removed them from the water we simply cut the tinfoil out around the rim. Jars were then cooled completely and inoculated. We then returned to 12 jars to the crate they came in and placed them in the back of a dark closet at room temerature.
Nothing at all grew for almost 2 weeks. They looked completely unchanged(is that normal for that long?). After that period small white patches began to sprout in the jar. These continued to grw and spread over the next few weeks. I wish that I could say that the growth was brilliant white but I have to say that the always had a light tint of yellow(more gold). I guess because of this line in Erowid I thought that that was ok.
"The one exception to the previous statements is the mycelium will some times change from a bright white to a very pale yellow if it has water droplets touching it on the side of the glass."
The substrate was never overly wet and if I had to make a completely unknowing statement I would have said they were too dry.
The jars covered themselves more and more and we decided to remove them after 5 weeks. They seemed to be completely covered, but still had than faint "yellow" color. When we dejarred the cakes they were solid and removed easily. We inspected best we could and couldn't determine any sort of contamination or coloring spots that deviated from the yellow(which may have been contam, or piss, although I can't find a good post about piss and what its issue is or if its bad).
We had errected a terrarium and consisting a the clear style large rubbermaid tub. We built the terrarium exactly as the picture shows although I don't think that our plexiglass slope had as much pitch on it as the show in that picture ours had lets say 25 degree pitch rather than the 45 degree or so they show in the pic.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/images/mmgg_grow-1.gif
We used the ultra sonic method with 3 bottles. Humidifier was stacked on the top shelf of a closet. Vinyl tube proceeded down to the bottles(which hung from the closet rod). We actually had 4 bottles at one point but had elimated one after a day because it didn't seem that we needed it.(no fog last 2 bottles). Humidity was piped just above the bottom part of the drip shield slope. Drip shield had about a 3/4 gap on both sides and seemed to be doing its job of drip prevention(we later trimmed it back a little thinking that it may have been restricting humidity to the bottom of the chamber). We also had them in a clear(ish) terrarium and weren't really limiting light (plently of daylight (not direct) in the room.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/images/mmgg_ultra-2.gif
Temperature was around low 80's and humidity around 90%. The cakes remained realtively unchanged for around a week. The cakes then started to produce a white fuzziness(not heavy fuzz like a cobweb just a nice white hair like a tennis ball) that covered the cakes. Then nothing. Nothing at all changed or happened for weeks. We then began tinkering with higher humidity, or lower, and temperature +/-. No change at all. 2 months +/-. Not one pinhead ever formed on any of the 12 cakes. We then had a issue with the Humidifier and decide enough was enough. We cut open one of the cakes and its was fully colonized with white fungus throughout. The cakes didn't seem overly wet or dry.
My concerns were: Although the jars seemed to be completely covered, I seen post pics on the forums here of just amazingly brilliant white jars, which ours never were. Which leads me to believe that either we removed them too early or that they were never that healthy to begin with.
Faint yellow coloring? Normal? Piss? (can someone link to a solid post about piss, because I'm confused)
Something I'm missing in the chamber? Were we supposed to initiate fruting somehow that I missed?
Thanks for replies and ideas
/signed Noob
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FunkyMonkey
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Registered: 09/23/05
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4782357 - 10/10/05 12:26 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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1) There is vermiculite in many forms, course verm can be found sold as fake fire place wood, fine vermiculite can be found in the garden department of most large chain stores.
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Also I have a hole in the top lid of my jars (for inoculation) and superglue a hepafilter on top of that. Prehaps the jars couldn't breathe enough while colonizing?
If there was a contam it could have kept your cakes from fruiting.
I would suggest casing the cakes. Just grab some peatmoss & fine vermiculite and your good to go. From my experience it is easier to get them to fruit from a casing than from a cake.
I generally use popcorn as a spawn which supposedly doesn't fruit well as a cake anyway..
I had a few popcorn cakes that wouldn't fruit.. I cased them and within a week I had all kinds of shrooms.. Try casing them, it's not a bit more difficult that what you've already did and I bet they would fruit then..
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
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chefnub
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Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 5
Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: FunkyMonkey]
#4782405 - 10/10/05 12:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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As a side note, They also developped some spots of blue mold right at the end. That was the only obvious issue throughout the entire 3+ months of dealing with them.
Can you explain casing to me? Or link me somewhere?
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PornoRob
He's not such abad guy

Registered: 07/04/05
Posts: 175
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4782437 - 10/10/05 12:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds like your FC was too warm. If i'm not mistaken you should be fruiting in the mid 70's not the low 80's. Just a thought
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chefnub
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Registered: 10/10/05
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: PornoRob]
#4782452 - 10/10/05 12:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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we generally tried to keep it in the mid to upper 70's actually, The 80's ish is typically like a 74-82 degree spread. Although the temp and humidity gauges we had were pos's
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bumper
Playin EVE


Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 498
Loc: Middle of Canada
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4782684 - 10/10/05 01:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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From the sounds of how long it took to grow, they might have been to dry in the jars, I did a couple of batches where they took forever. Did you happen to dunk these cakes after you popped them out of their jars, they would be hard to pin if they were dried out inside. Just a guess on my part. Couldn't say about the yellow bein piss, I haven't had any of my jars have yellow piss as of yet. I have seen a few pics around the forum if you care to hunt them out for comparison. From what I have read, there are some strains that don't do to good growing from cakes, might want to look into that also. Hope something works out for yea, have a good one.
Here's a link to some yellowing http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4399781/Main/4399238
-------------------- Pitbulls are like any other dog, they can be trained to be nasty or they can be trained to be good, some are smart and some are stupid, just like every other breed. Their tough, stubborn and loyal, which is easily turned into something horrible in the wrong hands.
Edited by bumper (10/10/05 01:49 PM)
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chefnub
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Registered: 10/10/05
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Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: bumper]
#4782909 - 10/10/05 02:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmm... well in my guide there is no reference to "dunking"... whats that? And like I said before I had the slight impression that they were too dry, although their post jar life should have had plenty of humidity, but maybe the core of the cakes were too dry?
That link is very close to what I was seeing in our jars. Maybe a little golder than but very close.
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lardnar
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4782915 - 10/10/05 02:29 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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just as they are in the jars jus fill the jar up with water and close n leave overnight
-------------------- If your soul is sence this life is lost ...
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bumper
Playin EVE


Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 498
Loc: Middle of Canada
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4783050 - 10/10/05 03:02 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dunking is the process of submerging your cake under water for an extended period of time, I don't know the recommended time schedule, I just fill with water and put it in the fridge over night, I leave it in there around 12 to 16 hours (all depends on how lazy I am that day). I think it might be rough getting them cakes out of the jar after dunking, might wanna remove from jar before and place in another container for dunking. I case all mine so I don't have to worry about how my cakes come out of the jars. Was just a thought as to the size difference to things that you add moister to.
-------------------- Pitbulls are like any other dog, they can be trained to be nasty or they can be trained to be good, some are smart and some are stupid, just like every other breed. Their tough, stubborn and loyal, which is easily turned into something horrible in the wrong hands.
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chefnub
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Registered: 10/10/05
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Last seen: 18 years, 4 months
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: bumper]
#4783120 - 10/10/05 03:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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So what are your thoughts about taking my existing cakes, dunking them and casing them? Even though they are months old.
There is only 3 of the cakes that developed unnatural mold colors. Is it safe to remove those from the rest(already done anyway) and still continue to try to fruit the others?
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4783147 - 10/10/05 03:23 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's a tip I read that has worked great for me. When I grind my own BR I increase the amount of water, per jar, by 1 tablespoon. I tend to grind my BRF a little coarser then store bought. Gives it a more airy texture I believe the coarser flour can absorb more moisture, hence the additional tablespoon per jar.
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony. Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness HC Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.............. I LUV My Greenhouse http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848 My First Pans http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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bumper
Playin EVE


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Re: Need some critique for a noobie [Re: chefnub]
#4783215 - 10/10/05 03:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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From what I understand of molds, if you can see it growing on your cake it will most likely spread to other cakes in the same container, but you can always give it a shot (using personal safety procedures), as you break them up you should find signs of contamination if it exists. Have to be careful with molds as they spread so easily and can have health issues related to them. I can't really say either way if it would be a good idea or not. Starting a new batch I think would be a good idea at this point, just so you got a back up plan for whatever route you take.
-------------------- Pitbulls are like any other dog, they can be trained to be nasty or they can be trained to be good, some are smart and some are stupid, just like every other breed. Their tough, stubborn and loyal, which is easily turned into something horrible in the wrong hands.
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