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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: gregorio]
    #4774518 - 10/08/05 11:25 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
We just narrowly missed a bill that would have made it the law that you have to report any drug crime you have knowlege of within 24 hrs or face up to two years in prison yourself.

What are we trying to make America into?



that didn't pass!!!??

Link?

If so... good.

anyway I don't think the secret service would have done a damn thing even if the most draconian laws imaginable were put in place..... I mean, a thumbs down? Oh my, how threatening!

Do they go and arrest every single person that flips Bush off when they see him in person? Because as old Bush himself put it, he was pleased that some Canadians waved to him using all 5 fingers.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 4,322
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: leery11]
    #4776591 - 10/09/05 12:54 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

Ekstaza said:
We just narrowly missed a bill that would have made it the law that you have to report any drug crime you have knowlege of within 24 hrs or face up to two years in prison yourself.

What are we trying to make America into?



that didn't pass!!!??

Link?

If so... good.





I'm pretty sure that this a dead bill.

Here's link to where you can read about it.
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=26179


--------------------
YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: leery11]
    #4776602 - 10/09/05 12:57 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

thats what happens when you look to wal-mart for freedom.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleSoularize
slanted and enchanted
Male

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 1,155
Loc: United States
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: kotik]
    #4777414 - 10/09/05 04:51 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Not to seem insensitive towards the victims who actually perished in the horrific event, but i must say...

9/11 (and the government's resulting security measures) has really made life SHITTY for alot of innocent people. The direction of our country's whole "anti-terror" approach on society is reallllly starting to become absurd. This story was a perfect example.


{Peace}


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"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4778010 - 10/09/05 07:21 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

It's odd. I keep hearing people complain that the anti-terrorism measures have made life "really shitty" for people. Yet I never see any examples of this. How have these measures made your life shittier it was in August of 2001?

Even this ludicrous little escapade with an overzealous photo developer pushing the panic button. What's the big deal? The student and teacher were asked some questions, the Secret Service guys left, no charges were filed. A story to tell the grandkids one day.

This isn't to say I see no potential for abuse of portions of the Patriot Act (for example), but this isn't a situation where any abuse occurred. It was probably a bigger pain in the ass for the SS than it was for the kid and the teacher.





Phred


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InvisibleSoularize
slanted and enchanted
Male

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 1,155
Loc: United States
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4778374 - 10/09/05 08:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

let me guess, you're a normal-looking caucasian?

No offense, but if this is the case, then you probably will NEVER experience the affects of absurd "anti-terrorism" tactics.

On the other hand, I HONESTLY believe that people of ethnic descent are looked at and watched with more suspicion. You DONT HAVE TO BE MIDDLE EASTERN to fall into this category of lame profiling. There are plenty of people in our country who might be, say, Italian, Greek, Lebanese...half Spanish and half Turkish  :smirk: i dunno...a mix of races...the point is, there DO happen to be exxxxtremely naive caucasians who don't think much for themselves, and let sources such as Fox News dictate who and what they should be in fear or suspicious of.

I've read about and witnessed several cases in the last year, about some non-white individual being subdued and questioned by local police...for TOTALLY illegitimate reasons.

One scenario Im aware of involved a perfectly law-abiding, respectful local guy walking around in the city Locks, taking photographs of old boats...something that hundreds of people do there EVERY year...apparently he was pulled aside by police, questioned intensely, asked to provide some ID. If my memory serves me correctly, the police officers had notepads out, writing down this poor bastard's personal information. ughhh.

Sure, they did eventually let him go after that, but i mean WTF. These types of scenarios happen to absolutely innocent citizens more often than neccessary it seems. And I bet you that some of these victims of profiling DO end up on some type of watch list. its bullshit.

You're right, most people's lives havent really been affected from post 9/11 paranoia...but don't believe for a second that there arent people out there who ARE affected by it.

Most people I meet are nice and smart enough, but I know that there are still plenty of naive people in our society. This Wal-Mart doofus fits the category perfectly.

And what about the new Patriot Act??? I bet hardly anybody on this site approves of such an absurd law being passed. And you really cant try telling me that the Patriot Act isn't a direct effect of 9/11 and terrorism. Without 9/11 happening, there would be no Patriot Act.


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


Edited by Soularize (10/09/05 08:51 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4779201 - 10/09/05 11:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

On the other hand, I HONESTLY believe that people of ethnic descent are looked at and watched with more suspicion.




Well, duh! Seeing as how it's almost exclusively Muslim males 18-45 years old pulling off all this shit, there's not a lot of percentage investing a whole lot of time pulling over Swedish grannies for inspection.

Quote:

Sure, they did eventually let him go after that, but I mean WTF.




WTF what? Was he arrested? Was he even taken down to the cop shop? He was stopped and questioned. When they figured out what he was doing, they let him walk. Dude, this kind of stuff happens all the time. It's happened to me, fa cryin' out loud.

About two decades ago I was playing with a radio-controlled car I'd just put together in the empty parking lot of the shopping center across from my building at three in the morning once when a cruiser pulled over. Two cops got out, asked me why the hell I was out in the parking lot at that time of night -- something that should have been obvious seeing as how as I was scooting my car under their cruiser and back again, doing donuts around their feet with it, etc. They made me hand over my controller, asked me where I lived, asked me for ID, asked me where I worked -- the whole nine yards. Then they told me I was trespassing and that I'd have to pick up my car and go elsewhere. They got back in the cruiser and followed me all the way back to my apartment building.

Did I feel oppressed? Did I feel my rights were violated? Fuck no. I was a little pissed I'd have to find someplace else to test the car, but that's all. They were just cops who saw a weird looking guy doing some unusual things at a weird hour. No biggie.

Quote:

And I bet you that some of these victims of profiling DO end up on some type of watch list. its bullshit.




Well, I hope they're watching people taking lessons in how to fly commercial airliners a bit more closely than they were four years ago.

Quote:

Without 9/11 happening, there would be no Patriot Act.




Probably true. So what? Name me one thing you could legally do pre Patriot Act that you can't legally do today. What freedom of yours did the Patriot Act take away?

As for this ridiculous incident, you do realize the Secret Service had no choice but to investigate once they had been notified by another law enforcement agency? I mean that literally -- they had no choice.




Phred


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InvisibleSoularize
slanted and enchanted
Male

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 1,155
Loc: United States
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4779589 - 10/10/05 12:37 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

sigh

your outlook is of a pretty biased, stubborn approach. I can tell that pretty much anything I offer in conversation with you will be of a total waste. lol oh well, Im fairly stubborn myself...

Perhaps having one's personal privacy and freedom molested by the government doesn't bother you as much as it does me. Good for you.

The problem is that the Patriot Act isnt strictly focused on terror. There are sections of the Patriot Act that have absolutely NOTHING to do with catching terrorists.

I doubt that you realize the full effects that this law has on society; There are plenty of political activists, people involved in peace organizations - commonly anit-war protesters - who are basically bullied by their own government...some of these peaceful individuals end up being investigated by Secret Services, put on a government watch list...HOW THE FUCK DO ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS INVOLVED IN PEACE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM?

You cannot honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly experiences real problems from all of this crap. Being put on a fucking watch list is real, its serious, and definitely seems to have extreme potential of debilitating a person's life and their psyche.

The Patriot Act affects the average joe - regular citizens like you and me - and it's already been used as justification for busting people on petty-ass drug crimes.

I dont mean to sound so paranoid. But you really have to ask yourself, with things like the Patriot Act being applied, "what's next?" In this regard it truly feels as if we're on a downward path.

by the way, you wouldnt happen to be a Republican would you?  :grin:


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4780106 - 10/10/05 01:47 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

So you couldn't think of anything? Don't feel bad -- no one else has been able to answer that question either.

Quote:

You cannot honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly experiences real problems from all of this crap. Being put on a fucking watch list is real, its serious, and definitely seems to have extreme potential of debilitating a person's life and their psyche.




Can you honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly needs to be watched more closely than the average Joe? As just one example, Muslim males aged 18 to 40 taking courses in how to fly airliners? How about people living in apartment buildings rather than on farms buying a few hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer?

It is true that most people looked at will turn out to be no threat, just as most people looked at in murder cases or robberies or rapes turn out to be no threat.

While I am not comfortable with every single provision of the Patriot Act, all it really does is make it easier for the LEO to check things out. It didn't make anything citizens could do legally four years ago illegal. You are every bit as free to do what you were doing four years ago.

Some of the provisions should have been in place years ago -- for example the demolition of the Clinton/Gorelick "wall" preventing adequate information sharing between agencies, the revision of phone-tapping to reflect the realities of communication in the age of disposable cell phones, etc.

And no, I'm not a Republican. I'm not even an American, though I have visited a few places in America over the years.

But if I were an American, I'd be a whole hell of a lot more worried over how the Kelo decision by the Supreme Court might change my life than how having the SS check me out might.




Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4780148 - 10/10/05 01:53 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
About two decades ago I was playing with a radio-controlled car I'd just put together in the empty parking lot of the shopping center

Two cops got out, asked me why the hell I was out in the parking lot at that time of night

I was scooting my car under their cruiser and back again, doing donuts around their feet with it, etc.




You harrassed some cops with a remote controlled car?

:lol:  :rofl2:  :rofl: :rotfl:

You get five shrooms for that.


Edited by RandalFlagg (10/10/05 02:33 AM)


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InvisibleSoularize
slanted and enchanted
Male

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 1,155
Loc: United States
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4780207 - 10/10/05 02:09 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Aha...I see.

Youre not even an American!!

You really have no room to speak on this subject. You don't even live in the same political/social climate that I do. There's nothing like having a foreigner tell you how life is in your own country  :smirk:

Dont bother retorting...Im finished here.


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4780385 - 10/10/05 02:49 AM (16 years, 15 days ago)

LOL!

SO I can't comment on what is common knowledge to anyone with an internet connection? I can't discuss happenings in any countries other than my own?

So much for the thousands of threads on Iraq and Afghanistan, I guess. There go all the hundreds of threads on sweatshop labor in Caina and third world countries too (except my posts on sweatshop labor in the country in which I live -- the Dominican Republic). No more threads on aid to Africa, no more threads on nukes in North Korea and Iran and Pakistan and India. Man, it's going to take a LONG time to delete them all.

Just because you couldn't provide an example of a freedom you've lost since the introduction of the Patriot Act doesn't mean you have to take your ball and go home. As I told you before, I don't think any less of you for failing to name one, since NOBODY has been able to name one so far.




Phred


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4782063 - 10/10/05 01:27 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Phred, perhaps you can tell everyone how well Jose Padilla's rights are being protected in modern America. Sure that doesn't effect everyone, but the precedents ARE being established and will be used against others. Your unceasing expressions to blithely convince others to give the federal government a free pass on the patriot act (and torture) are, of course, completely ungrounded in the history of politics and power - in a word, naive. Do you believe everything those in power tell you? Or only that which coincides with your current prejudices? My estimation is the latter, your lack of objectivity is glaring.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4782140 - 10/10/05 01:42 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Hey...Phred knows how to fight "The Man". He harrassed some cops with his remote controlled car.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4782904 - 10/10/05 04:28 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Prosgeopax writes:

Quote:

Phred, perhaps you can tell everyone how well Jose Padilla's rights are being protected in modern America.




Perhaps you could first remind the readers how Jose Padilla came to be arrested? Then you can point out which provision of the Patriot Act -- not any prior legislation -- applies to his situation.

Quote:

Your unceasing expressions to blithely convince others to give the federal government a free pass on the patriot act (and torture) are, of course, completely ungrounded in the history of politics and power - in a word, naive.




Where have I said the government should allow torture? Where have I ever given the government a "free pass" on the Patriot Act? I have said repeatedly that there are parts of the Patriot Act I feel uncomfortable with, and I have said that deciding whether torture is effective and deciding whether torture is moral are two different questions.

I have, however, correctly pointed out there was no action an American citizen could legally undertake pre Patriot Act that they cannot now legally undertake post Patriot Act. The most that ANY provision of the Patriot Act can be said to have changed is to make it less cumbersome for various government agencies to gather information on suspected terrorists (and yes -- through the principle of unintended consequences -- in some cases on those suspected of other criminal acts) and to make information sharing between those agencies more efficient than it had been in the past.

Since this act was passed by Congress, it can be challenged at any time in the appellate courts by anyone who feels their constitutional rights have been violated by government officials acting under the guidance of the Act. I am unaware of any such appeals having made their way yet all the way to the Supreme Court, however. Do you know of any? If so, I'd like to check them out. Or even for that matter any Patriot Act cases that have been decided by lower federal courts. I'm not being facetious about this, by the way -- I truly do want to look into the rulings in any such cases and would be delighted if anyone knows of any.



Phred


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