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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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Steaming jars instead of boiling update (pics)
    #477654 -

Well, I was reading and came across the part where you boil the jar and it sed boil or steam for 45 minutes. So I was wondering if Steaming will work? Here are some pics of a steamer. The top part lifts off so you can put the water in and then the steam comes up throw the holds.
If anyone has had any luck doing this please reply thanks.






Edited by nobodycares42 (12/03/01 10:36 PM)

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #477846 -

well, what part of the boiling is sterilizing the jars, the heat right? steam is hotter than boiling water.. so in theory it should work.. at least i want it to.. would make things easier for me, but dont take my word for it! :)


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"love it when you trip out all alone"

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #477852 -

Looks good to me. I also try to steam my jars. It works for me.

Joshua


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The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: a4n2d0y]
    #477953 -

>steam is hotter than boiling water.
Steam from the boiling water at the bottom is exacly as hot as the boiling water.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Anno]
    #478126 -

Sweet thanks for all of your help

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #478469 -

the reason steam occurs is because it becomes hotter than liquid h2o can become, so at the initial occurance it will be exactly the same, but quickly becomes hotter.. this is why you can burn yourself more severely from steam than boiling water.


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"love it when you trip out all alone"

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #478809 -

YOu know what also works for sterilizing jars, a rice cooker. I currently use a rice cooker to sterilize my PF style jars. I like to use the rice cooker because I can plug it in in my room and use it insteead of using the stove and taking the chance of getting caught.

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #478819 -

no pressure = nowhere near good enough sterilization for grain etc..


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: DinoMyc]
    #478878 -

Here are some pics of what i did and what i got after.








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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling update (pics [Re: nobodycares42]
    #479026 -

Not sure that this really qualifies for the 'advanced' mushroom cultivation board...

I'll tell you... I used to try to simply boil/steam my jars. Very hit and miss. Pressure-cooker is the way to go. Walmart has a cheapie one that should suffice for $49.

I'd like to encourage you to finish off this photo essay by posting a follow-up set of pics showing your results with 'steaming' your jars. If you can get a good harvest, then it might debunk the need to pressure-cook.

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Anno]
    #479055 -

Steam may be at the same temperature as water when boiling at atmospheric pressure, however as I understand it, it contains more thermal energy than water at the same temperature. When the steam comes in contact with the jars it can transfer more of this thermal energy to the jars than the same ammount of water.

I agree about investing in a pressure cooker if your serious. I just won an All American on E-bay for $50. A pressure cooker allows the water and steam to reach much higher temperatures than a regular steamer. I had about a 75% success rate with my jars when steaming. I hope to improve that to 90% or better with my new pressure cooker.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: a4n2d0y]
    #479251 -

just a small correction . . .

Here's Science:

steam is the same temp as boiling water. 212F. The minute changes to which you refer, are of little significance. If the steam is "hotter" once it rises a bit off the surface of the water from which it came, it ain't gonna be my more than a few degrees.

When you use a pressure cooker, and introduce 15psi's of pressure, only THEN does the temp of steam become 250F. That's the beauty of a pressure cooker.

By the way, to say you can burn yourself more from steam than from boiling water is silly. Don't do an experiment to get us the results. It's ugly both ways.



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". . . and I'm searchin' for the latest thing, a break in this routine--I'm talkin' some new kicks; ones like you ain't never seen. . . . "

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: ChangLee]
    #480173 -

pressureized steam is indeed far more of a danger than boiling water.. boiling water will be nearly 100*, while pressureized steam can be significantly higher.. there is many a story from people working on steam engine driven trains where there was a tiny crack, and a passerby (worker/engineer/poor sap) was cut in half by the invisible "beam" of steam...
when you pressure cook, you have a bomb on your stove.. but treat it with care, you will have no problems.. do you think they would last 5 min on an american-I'll-sue-you-for-my-stupidity market had they been unsafe if uperated properly?
id reccomend the middle size all american.. it's the best "bang for your buck" (largist capicity/cost ratio)...
here is the cheapist price I've found, although should you find better I'd allways be appreciative of an update:
http://www.appliances.com/allamerican921.html
much luck.


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.

Edited by DinoMyc (12/04/01 11:29 PM)

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling update (pics [Re: di11rod]
    #480236 -

di11rod,
a few weeks ago, i steriled 3 jars by boiling them similar to hte pictures here, and so far no contams. I've already cased one jar and the other two are about ready to birth (possibly tomorrow on one of them.)

I just got done sterilizing 24 new jars tonight. I'm going to let them sit for a week before I innoculate them, so I'll let you know if any show up w/ contams. The boiling method has worked well for me thus far. =)

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling update (pics) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #480280 -

I have used my rice Streamer with good results on BRF steamed for 1 1/2 hours. But I believe whole Rye needs to be PC'd.

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: a4n2d0y]
    #480331 -

>the reason steam occurs is because it becomes hotter than>
>liquid h2o can become, so at the initial occurance it will be
>exactly the same, but quickly becomes hotter.. this is why
>you can burn yourself more severely from steam than
>boiling water.
I?m sorry, but this is bullshit.

>but quickly becomes hotter..
Not in a pot where you have boiling water and the water is the source of steam.

>this is why you can burn yourself more severely from
>steam than boiling water.
The reason for this is that when you burn yourself with steam, steam condensates on your skin and gives of the (high amount) of condensation energy.

It?s not the temperature that burns you, it?s the transfer of energy.

example: heat your oven to 400?F. Now put the hand inside the owen in the (400?F) hot air. Will you burn you hand? No, because the energy transfer(commonly called "heat tranfer") from the air to our skin is bad and because air doesn?t bear much energy being a gas.

Now touch the wall of your owen that also has 400?F. Will you burn yourself? Hell yes!
Why? Because the heat transfer from metal to skin is much batter and because metal has a higher heat capacity than air.

If you still don?t belive me, go and buy a good physics book...



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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Anno]
    #480442 -

Pressure cookers are still dangerous though. One time i set everything up to steralise my cakes turned the cooker on then went out side for a few joints. an hour later there was a small bang, i ran into the kitchne and the pressure cooker exploded covering the kitchen in hot wet substrate. luckly no one was hurt but there was a very big mess.
So in future I will always keep an eye on things.


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Fighting the man the best way I can.

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: EvilGir]
    #480460 -

Why don't you add something to your water to increase the boiing point. I know that anti-freeze will increase the boiling point dramatically, but I do not know if will stink to high heaven when you boil it. I think regular salt will increase the boiling point as well althougth it will not be nearly as much as anti-freeze.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

Edited by Humidity (12/05/01 06:57 AM)

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Humidity]
    #480562 -

Let?s assume, there was something you could add to the water to increase it?s boiling point.(one could also simply take oil).
Then let?s assume that the boiling point of this mixture would be 220?F. Now you would have cakes prepared with water that boils at 212?F in a pot of medium that has 220?C.
What do you think will happen?


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Anno]
    #480961 -

A pressure cooker heats jars to 250 degees at 15 psi I beleive. Now if you place your jars in boiling water with something to increase the boiling temp to 250 degrees you should get the same results with the boiling water solution as a pressure cooker. You may not even have to use water you can possibly use cooking oil (like you said Anno) and heat them until they are sterilized. You would of coars have to use a filter disc of somesort on the top to allow air exchange other wise your jars would explode. A pressure cooker would be your best bet, but if you don't have one or can't buy one (mabey they are out of season) then something like this might be a alternative.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Humidity]
    #481005 -

Not quite that will happen.

What will hapen is that the water in the jars will be boiling, as the temperature outside(in the pot) is higher than the boiling point of water(in the jar).
So you will in fact evaporate the water from your substrate, depending on the temperature you might dry out your jars completely. So this way is not very good, in fact it?s useless.


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Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling update (pics) [Re: nobodycares42]
    #481080 -

The very first time that my friend tried cultivating via the PF TEK he used the steamer method. ALL 10 jars made it, with only 1/2 of one cake with a little green mold on it. He steamed for excatly one hour.


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>>Jammer>>

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Anno]
    #481161 -

Anno I see your point now. If the jars were raised well above 100 deg C at normal atmospheric pressure it would cause rapid evaportation.


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_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking

Edited by Humidity (12/05/01 07:09 PM)

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Re: Steaming jars instead of boiling (PICS of Steamer) [Re: Humidity]
    #481569 -

Precicely. 

:smile:

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