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 DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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 Forever cake tek!! 
#477211 - 12/02/01 02:39 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Was just thinking...... and figured out that it would be quite possible to have a cake with a near infinite amount of flushes.. heres how it works..
Make a standard casing however works best for you.. birth and take the first flush. it was great, wasnt it? now... re-case with a half inch of either substrate or more casing. cover with aluminum foil and let myc regenerate for a week or two. once myc looks good, remove aluminum foil and rebirth. This can be repeated over and over until tyou reach the top of yur container. If you find it working well you can take 2 or more flushes from each casing before you re-case.
The reason this tek would be useful is because you would have to revert back to starting from scratch alot less often. No more jars and pressure cooking and the looong wait for 100% colonization. well atleast you wouldnt do it as often.
Anyone have any comments?
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477345 - 12/02/01 04:50 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Great in theory, unfortunately in real life it would contaminate as soon you add some fresh substrate to the casing.
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DarK_SavioR
addict
Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 454
Loc: Down the Street
Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477365 - 12/02/01 05:16 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ya, you'd lose your new casings to contams most likely... also, you'd need to provide nutrients somehow, the cakes would last a little while but it'd get used up way before "infinite" : )
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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DarK_SavioR]
#477466 - 12/02/01 06:45 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmm well im pretty sure it wouldnt run out of neuts.. when yur adding a new layer of substrate such as birdseed and verm.. and the reason that it wouldnt get contammed right away is cuz you mix up the substrate in a pyrex bowl and mycrowave it for a bit, then put it right into the terrarium after its cooled.. but you cool it in a sterile place with a piece of serain wrap on top. and when you put the substrate on top of the cake, its coverd with aluminum foil and daily misted with H2O2 water solution until the myc has recoverd.
see any flaws in that??
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477477 - 12/02/01 06:56 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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>then put it right into the terrarium
Is your terrarium sterile? if not, then you will be putting fresh substrate on unsterile casing, and it will contaminate.
But try it out, you will see for yourself if it works or not.
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DarK_SavioR
addict
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Posts: 454
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477540 - 12/02/01 07:33 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could go ahead and try it out... adding substrate on top of the previous casing is really risky for contams though. I thaught you where just adding another casing layer without any nutrients in it, thats still risky for contams but not as much as bird seed would be. You should clean out your terrarium before placing the new casing in there. Try it out and tell us how it goes.
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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DarK_SavioR]
#477625 - 12/02/01 08:37 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmmm well i think alot of H2O2 would have to be involved... yes, it would be risky.. maybe only adding a centemeter thick layer of substrate would be required. less chance for contamsn and it would regenerate quicker.
-OR-
Adding in another casing layer with some honey mixed in with it for neutrients.. less attraction for contamns maybe? Well, i'll have to try it out with a little of my next round of cakes.. it'll be a while till then, but i'll tell ya how it goes.
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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DarK_SavioR
addict
Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 454
Loc: Down the Street
Last seen: 22 years, 4 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477737 - 12/02/01 09:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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good luck... you'll need to stay as clean as possible. I've experimented with adding nutrients in my casing layers and most of the time I'll lose it to contams after a couple flushes (sometimes after the first).
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Vitamin C chase, kill the taste. You can tell its nasty by the look on my face.
Ralphster44 & The FSR!
All thats stated above is for humor and a lie!!
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jonnyshaggs420
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/08/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#477803 - 12/02/01 11:05 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Peroxide will only kill spores and bacteria, odds are theren will be some living molds on the casing surface, even though they are not evident to the human eye. The addition of honey will probably attract contams more quickly then adding strait substrate. I'm all for experimentation though, so I say shoot for the moon. Just trying to give you a little heads up is all.
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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3nric
bastard
Registered: 05/02/01
Posts: 11
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#478174 - 12/03/01 10:21 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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it's not possible as long the fruiting will reduce ph of the substrate as it occurs, at a ph i don't remember for sure i think it's near 5, it will stop fruiting, the most similar you can do is spawnig with a layer of shit , a la "3m dung tek", recasing with shit after every flush scrapping off the old layer, i think it's the only way to squeeze more of your colonized grain, he said that he reached 9 good flushes using this tek
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Fonz
enthusiast
Registered: 07/25/99
Posts: 50
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
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 Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#478430 - 12/03/01 03:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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If your sticking to 1/2 pint cakes, it's my opinion that you should just fruit them as cakes, use the dunk tek, fruit as cakes, use the dunk tek, fruit as cakes, use the dunk tek, then toss in the trash. If your gonna go for a casing try working with more bulk substrates and quart jars.
The good thing is your really thinking and excited about what you are doing. Keep the thought process going and you'll never get bored with this hobby. If you do go against everyone else's all mighty opinion and find something that works, you are still obligated to share it with all the naysayers, including myself. Peace
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: Fonz]
#478532 - 12/03/01 05:26 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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im thinkin..a mesh layer between the substrate and the casing. Once the casing has spent its flush, pull up the meshing, along with the casing, and replace. repeat and repeat and repeat until the flushes decrease. this way if u get a contamn in the casing, you can most likely pull it up much before it spreads beyond repair.. i didnt think of this idea on my own..read it somewhere else but i cant find the link!
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#478800 - 12/03/01 09:24 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is because I sent it to you as a PM. Here it is.
LInk to the boring pattent lingo
http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?TERM1=4833820&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50
Link to thread
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=89194&fpart=1
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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DinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/13/99
Posts: 1,080
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#478830 - 12/03/01 09:39 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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search.. this has been proposed many times before.
no one, to me knowledge, actually followed through.
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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DinoMyc]
#478914 - 12/03/01 11:17 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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wonder if a layer a mesh that could wick water into the substrate/casing layer would promote growth. Something with natural fibers that would wick. yeah. that.
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: upupup]
#479577 - 12/04/01 01:46 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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a piece of burlap possibly made of hemp??
ya, thats where i got it from! UPUPUP has all the links in his head. thanks man!
peace.. i have soooo many pins!! the cake is coverd 100%! i dont see any spot where another pin could form! its amazing.. the biggest srhoom is like an inch today. looks real nice!
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#479687 - 12/04/01 03:45 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Burlap yes! Hemp yes! Gonna try it. Other suggestions?
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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Proteus
member
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 103
Loc: Dallas, TX
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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 Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: upupup]
#487224 - 12/11/01 09:50 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm trying to follow all this here - but the link to the US patent office really threw me. I can't get their pics to load - so I am stuck with that verbose explanation of what I can assume is really a simple procedure... But this idea of using burlap is intriguing.
So is the theory here to lay the burlap on top of the bottom casing layer, Then put the substrate on top of this... and thirdly, to case this layer??
After the first flush - you pull up the burlap, substrate and all - and put down a new burlap sack - and then substrate again??
No - this wouldnt work - I talked myself in circles.
Can someone hit me over the head with this idea so it's clear to me.
Thanks
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There is the theory of the Mobius Strip
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Proteus
member
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 103
Loc: Dallas, TX
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#488867 - 12/12/01 03:46 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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bump
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There is the theory of the Mobius Strip
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: Proteus]
#489020 - 12/12/01 06:05 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Layer 1 - colonized substrate
Layer 2 - burlap/mesh/somethin..
Layer 3 - Casing
proceedure: place mesh on substrate. case, let casing colonize. harvest first flush. pull up mesh and casing, re-mesh, re-case.
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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Man
journeyman
Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 63
Loc: Canada, eh
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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 Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#489392 - 12/12/01 11:50 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why bother with all this recasing if u can just add nutritious water? I think it would be easy to make a self watering aparatus (like the mesh idea). I was thinking running a tube in the side of the casing to what ever layer would be best to recieve it and I havent come up with a good way to diffuse it evenly but I will come up with something.
The problems I forsee are how can u ensure the resivoir of feed water will remain sterile? How can u adjust the rate of watering? What is the correct rate of watering?
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Jammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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 Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: Man]
#489394 - 12/12/01 11:54 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmm... ' sounds like your venturing into the murky waters of Mushroom Hydrophonics.
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>>Jammer>>
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azurescen
meanderinemushie muncher
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 261
Loc: bellingham wa
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: Jammer]
#489723 - 12/13/01 11:03 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe instead of pulling the mesh/casing after the 1st flush, why not wait till the 3rd, since with a casing the second flush is sometimes even better than the first.
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if the sign says dont pick the mushrooms, you should probably pick them
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: azurescen]
#489797 - 12/13/01 12:12 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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whatever floats your boat. i mean the purpose of the mesh is so that if yur casing goes contam then you can pull it up and replace it before it ruins yur substrate cake. Thats the main reason its there.. ya, go for 3 flushes and replace the casing. might be better, ya never know.
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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Proteus
member
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 103
Loc: Dallas, TX
Last seen: 22 years, 2 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#489859 - 12/13/01 01:01 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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SO all this talk about a burlap bag b/w the colonized substrate and the casing - - My 64,000 dollar question is: Are the shrooms supposed to grow thru the bag/mesh??
Sorry if I'm missing something very elementary here.....
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There is the theory of the Mobius Strip
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#490048 - 12/13/01 04:12 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wait, wait, wait. It's casing, then substrate, then mesh layer, then casing. The idea is once it's finished flushing or after the first flush then you pull up the top layer of casing and then lay another mesh layer down, then more substrate. Get it?
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: upupup]
#490079 - 12/13/01 04:43 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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the myc will grow through the burlap and onto the casing.. they will be able to form hypherial knots or whatever they're called between the holes in the burlap... or sometyhin like that.. but the shrooms themeselves develope above the burlap where the casing is, and never grow through the burlap.. just the myc goes through the burlap. and the idea of using burlap sprung about because then it could be used to wick moisture deep under the casings, right where the mushies need it.
And upupup.. did you mean to say that when you pull up the first flush, you put down another mesh and another CASING? not another layer of SUBSTRATE? i mean.. another layer of fresh substrate would easily get contamned..
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
Posts: 889
Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#490189 - 12/13/01 06:16 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes. My bad. I meant to say casing. So to clarify, it would be casing, substrate, mesh, casing. This is all hypothetical sort of. I would guess commercial growers have already done this since there is a patent and all. I have not seen burlap that has big enough holes in it to allow for the myc to grow through but maybe it dosen't have to be that large of holes. Do ya'll realize that if this works it almost would eliminate the need for misting casings? I am into straw right now and wonder if it has a place there as well.
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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Man
journeyman
Registered: 12/09/01
Posts: 63
Loc: Canada, eh
Last seen: 18 years, 11 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#490196 - 12/13/01 06:21 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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How will changing the top layer produce more mushies anyway? It has no nutritional value other than a bit of water. So even if u could do this over and over it's gonna run out of nutrients eventually. Probably on the 2nd or 3rd new top layer. I'm not an expert here but if what I've said above is true it would seem adding nutritious water is the only solution to extending ur casings life.
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DrJoseph
Wendy shot thegun.
Registered: 10/03/01
Posts: 211
Loc: intermolecular travel
Last seen: 21 years, 3 months
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: Man]
#490416 - 12/13/01 09:30 PM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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let me say it again.. the main purpose of the mesh is so that if the casing goes bad (contaminated) then the whole thing can be lifted out and replaced with a new casing.. insteaad of starting over with a completely new colonized substrate.
NOW. if we can somehow use this method to further improve on the standard casing, it would be even greater... such as using some sort of burlap instead of plastic screen, thus eliminating the need for misting.. potentially.. AND if we find some way of adding more nutrients without openning a huge gap for contamination... then we have our forever cake completed. Get it?? cuz i do.. now somebody think of a good way of adding neuts without contams!!
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"cus it aint gonna be like you think it is - thats the one thing you can take to the bank." - Terance mckenna
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cowflop
journeyman
Registered: 12/07/01
Posts: 65
Last seen: 21 years, 20 days
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Re: Forever cake tek!! [Re: DrJoseph]
#490806 - 12/14/01 06:36 AM (22 years, 9 months ago) |
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Put nutrients in the water you case with? I would put the burlap on the bottom and top of the substrate. And yes i have seen burlap with big holes. Coconuts shipped in come in burlap bags with 1/8" holes I'd say.
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Drugs are good, and you do em when you know you not should.
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