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Invisibledaussaulit
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Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo
    #4764747 - 10/06/05 05:59 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Wal-Mart Turns in Student's Anti-Bush Photo, Secret Service Investigates Him
Quote:

Selina Jarvis is the chair of the social studies department at Currituck County High School in North Carolina, and she is not used to having the Secret Service question her or one of her students.

But that's what happened on September 20.

Jarvis had assigned her senior civics and economics class "to take photographs to illustrate their rights in the Bill of Rights," she says. One student "had taken a photo of George Bush out of a magazine and tacked the picture to a wall with a red thumb tack through his head. Then he made a thumb's down sign with his own hand next to the President's picture, and he had a photo taken of that, and he pasted it on a poster."

According to Jarvis, the student, who remains anonymous, was just doing his assignment, illustrating the right to dissent.

But over at the Kitty Hawk Wal-Mart, where the student took his film to be developed, this right is evidently suspect.

An employee in that Wal-Mart photo department called the Kitty Hawk police on the student. And the Kitty Hawk police turned the matter over to the Secret Service.

On Tuesday, September 20, the Secret Service came to Currituck High."At 1:35, the student came to me and told me that the Secret Service had taken his poster," Jarvis says. "I didn't believe him at first. But they had come into my room when I wasn't there and had taken his poster, which was in a stack with all the others."

She says the student was upset.

"He was nervous, he was scared, and his parents were out of town on business," says Jarvis.

She, too, had to talk to the Secret Service.

"Halfway through my afternoon class, the assistant principal got me out of class and took me to the office conference room," she says. "Two men from the Secret Service were there. They asked me what I knew about the student. I told them he was a great kid, that he was in the homecoming court, and that he'd never been in any trouble."

Then they got down to his poster.

"They asked me, didn't I think that it was suspicious," she recalls. "I said no, it was a Bill of Rights project!"

At the end of the meeting, they told her the incident "would be interpreted by the U.S. attorney, who would decide whether the student could be indicted," she says.

The student was not indicted, and the Secret Service did not pursue the case further.

"I blame Wal-Mart more than anybody," she says. "I was really disgusted with them. But everyone was using poor judgment, from Wal-Mart up to the Secret Service."

A person in the photo department at the Wal-Mart in Kitty Hawk said, "You have to call either the home office or the authorities to get any information about that."

Jacquie Young, a spokesperson for Wal-Mart at company headquarters, did not provide comment within a 24-hour period.

Sharon Davenport of the Kitty Hawk Police Department said, "We just handed it over" to the Secret Service. "No investigative report was filed."

Jonathan Scherry, spokesman for the Secret Service in Washington, D.C., said, "We ertainly respect artistic freedom, but we also have the responsibility to look into incidents when necessary. In this case, it was brought to our attention from a private citizen, a photo lab employee."

Jarvis uses one word to describe the whole incident: "ridiculous."




Edited by daussaulit (10/06/05 09:24 PM)


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Offlinedrtyfrnk
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4764851 - 10/06/05 06:22 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Go america and their stranglehold on their so called "freedom".

Seriously.

When someone can't do this without getting in trouble, what's next?

I'm sure when someone mentions Bush and Kill in the same sentence now, the SS are gonna be all over their asses.

This makes me glad I live in canada.

Thanks for the article man. Good read.


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It's Krang, Bitch!  :krang:


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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: drtyfrnk]
    #4764925 - 10/06/05 06:41 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Bush's response to our concerns about freedom.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4764945 - 10/06/05 06:45 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

way to go vigilant wal mart monkeys!


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: drtyfrnk]
    #4764988 - 10/06/05 06:54 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I love threads like these. The canadians run in and spout of anything their soiled little tongues allow and then run back to the pub.

BEGONE CANADOODIANS.


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4765251 - 10/06/05 07:54 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Sup Big Brother.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: looner2]
    #4765458 - 10/06/05 08:37 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

If this sort of thing happened in Canada we would feel the same way. But the BS seems to overflow in your country.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4765478 - 10/06/05 08:43 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I noticed that the Secret Service did not persue the matter. I imagine they walked away shaking their heads muttering something like--" I can't believe these assholes wasted our time on this bullshit'--or something like that.

But what was the Wall Mart employee thinking. What an asshole.

And the Kitty Hawk police Dept, what were they thinking? I can't believe they actualy took something like this seriously to begin with.


Edited by gregorio (10/06/05 09:18 PM)


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Invisibledaussaulit
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: gregorio]
    #4765612 - 10/06/05 09:16 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

but, you think something like this would have happened pre-9/11?


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4765680 - 10/06/05 09:27 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

That an employee working in the photo lab would call the local police--yes I do and I'm sure similar things have happened many times before. The local police taking it to the next level-contacting the Secret Service-that might be another story. But, people over-reacting is nothing new.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4765826 - 10/06/05 09:54 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

Sometimes it suprises me how seriously the gov't takes trivial things when they should be worrying about real threats.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Redstorm]
    #4766006 - 10/06/05 10:32 PM (16 years, 19 days ago)

I agree with you but in this case I can't find any blame in anything that the Secret Service did. Once they got that call from the local police dept. I don't think they had any choice but to investigate the matter.

A case of a private citizen over-reacting and small town police dept. that should have known better than persue something as silly as this any further.


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Offlinechaospilot
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4766512 - 10/07/05 12:15 AM (16 years, 19 days ago)

seriously... wtf.... people need to educate themselfs about our constituion...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: chaospilot]
    #4767698 - 10/07/05 08:31 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

You guys are all traitors.

This was a matter of serious national security. I feel safer knowing the secret service is doing their job. GOD BLESS AMERICA.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: daussaulit]
    #4770088 - 10/07/05 06:42 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

What a great story.

Our friend sure got a good lesson about his rights as an American.

As for WAL-MART, aren't they officialy complicit with the American authorities? Like if you develop pictures of your grow there, employees are intructed to call the police.

I wouldn't suprised if it was company policy to do this as well. Some opportunistic employee there approves of the snitch culture...he's workin on that promotion...

"WAL-MART...Keeping Americans safe from terrorism, along with ol' Bushy"


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4770322 - 10/07/05 08:14 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Who develops pictures of their grow at any photo lab?


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: phi1618]
    #4770366 - 10/07/05 08:26 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

Don't ever doubt the stupidity of some people. There's always an annual story regarding a man reporting to the police someone stole his pot.


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OfflineDarcho
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: bukkake]
    #4771053 - 10/07/05 11:43 PM (16 years, 18 days ago)

These types of situations will occur more frequently and with more serious consequences, if the new Patriot Act comes into effect. This is just a precursor to much more that is to come.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Darcho]
    #4771353 - 10/08/05 01:12 AM (16 years, 18 days ago)

We just narrowly missed a bill that would have made it the law that you have to report any drug crime you have knowlege of within 24 hrs or face up to two years in prison yourself.

What are we trying to make America into?


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: bukkake]
    #4772094 - 10/08/05 08:01 AM (16 years, 17 days ago)

:smile: :smile: Those stories allways kill me. It's like the monthly stories I read where people get busted with multiple pounds of pot because they were driving like 85 MPH down the interstate or diving with a headlight out. They should just put a big neon sign on top of their car----BUST ME PLEASE, I'M AN ASSHOLE


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: gregorio]
    #4774518 - 10/08/05 11:25 PM (16 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
We just narrowly missed a bill that would have made it the law that you have to report any drug crime you have knowlege of within 24 hrs or face up to two years in prison yourself.

What are we trying to make America into?



that didn't pass!!!??

Link?

If so... good.

anyway I don't think the secret service would have done a damn thing even if the most draconian laws imaginable were put in place..... I mean, a thumbs down? Oh my, how threatening!

Do they go and arrest every single person that flips Bush off when they see him in person? Because as old Bush himself put it, he was pleased that some Canadians waved to him using all 5 fingers.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: leery11]
    #4776591 - 10/09/05 12:54 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

Ekstaza said:
We just narrowly missed a bill that would have made it the law that you have to report any drug crime you have knowlege of within 24 hrs or face up to two years in prison yourself.

What are we trying to make America into?



that didn't pass!!!??

Link?

If so... good.





I'm pretty sure that this a dead bill.

Here's link to where you can read about it.
http://actioncenter.drugpolicy.org/action/index.asp?step=2&item=26179


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: leery11]
    #4776602 - 10/09/05 12:57 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

thats what happens when you look to wal-mart for freedom.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleSoularize
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: kotik]
    #4777414 - 10/09/05 04:51 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Not to seem insensitive towards the victims who actually perished in the horrific event, but i must say...

9/11 (and the government's resulting security measures) has really made life SHITTY for alot of innocent people. The direction of our country's whole "anti-terror" approach on society is reallllly starting to become absurd. This story was a perfect example.


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4778010 - 10/09/05 07:21 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

It's odd. I keep hearing people complain that the anti-terrorism measures have made life "really shitty" for people. Yet I never see any examples of this. How have these measures made your life shittier it was in August of 2001?

Even this ludicrous little escapade with an overzealous photo developer pushing the panic button. What's the big deal? The student and teacher were asked some questions, the Secret Service guys left, no charges were filed. A story to tell the grandkids one day.

This isn't to say I see no potential for abuse of portions of the Patriot Act (for example), but this isn't a situation where any abuse occurred. It was probably a bigger pain in the ass for the SS than it was for the kid and the teacher.





Phred


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InvisibleSoularize
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4778374 - 10/09/05 08:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

let me guess, you're a normal-looking caucasian?

No offense, but if this is the case, then you probably will NEVER experience the affects of absurd "anti-terrorism" tactics.

On the other hand, I HONESTLY believe that people of ethnic descent are looked at and watched with more suspicion. You DONT HAVE TO BE MIDDLE EASTERN to fall into this category of lame profiling. There are plenty of people in our country who might be, say, Italian, Greek, Lebanese...half Spanish and half Turkish  :smirk: i dunno...a mix of races...the point is, there DO happen to be exxxxtremely naive caucasians who don't think much for themselves, and let sources such as Fox News dictate who and what they should be in fear or suspicious of.

I've read about and witnessed several cases in the last year, about some non-white individual being subdued and questioned by local police...for TOTALLY illegitimate reasons.

One scenario Im aware of involved a perfectly law-abiding, respectful local guy walking around in the city Locks, taking photographs of old boats...something that hundreds of people do there EVERY year...apparently he was pulled aside by police, questioned intensely, asked to provide some ID. If my memory serves me correctly, the police officers had notepads out, writing down this poor bastard's personal information. ughhh.

Sure, they did eventually let him go after that, but i mean WTF. These types of scenarios happen to absolutely innocent citizens more often than neccessary it seems. And I bet you that some of these victims of profiling DO end up on some type of watch list. its bullshit.

You're right, most people's lives havent really been affected from post 9/11 paranoia...but don't believe for a second that there arent people out there who ARE affected by it.

Most people I meet are nice and smart enough, but I know that there are still plenty of naive people in our society. This Wal-Mart doofus fits the category perfectly.

And what about the new Patriot Act??? I bet hardly anybody on this site approves of such an absurd law being passed. And you really cant try telling me that the Patriot Act isn't a direct effect of 9/11 and terrorism. Without 9/11 happening, there would be no Patriot Act.


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


Edited by Soularize (10/09/05 08:51 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4779201 - 10/09/05 11:45 PM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

On the other hand, I HONESTLY believe that people of ethnic descent are looked at and watched with more suspicion.




Well, duh! Seeing as how it's almost exclusively Muslim males 18-45 years old pulling off all this shit, there's not a lot of percentage investing a whole lot of time pulling over Swedish grannies for inspection.

Quote:

Sure, they did eventually let him go after that, but I mean WTF.




WTF what? Was he arrested? Was he even taken down to the cop shop? He was stopped and questioned. When they figured out what he was doing, they let him walk. Dude, this kind of stuff happens all the time. It's happened to me, fa cryin' out loud.

About two decades ago I was playing with a radio-controlled car I'd just put together in the empty parking lot of the shopping center across from my building at three in the morning once when a cruiser pulled over. Two cops got out, asked me why the hell I was out in the parking lot at that time of night -- something that should have been obvious seeing as how as I was scooting my car under their cruiser and back again, doing donuts around their feet with it, etc. They made me hand over my controller, asked me where I lived, asked me for ID, asked me where I worked -- the whole nine yards. Then they told me I was trespassing and that I'd have to pick up my car and go elsewhere. They got back in the cruiser and followed me all the way back to my apartment building.

Did I feel oppressed? Did I feel my rights were violated? Fuck no. I was a little pissed I'd have to find someplace else to test the car, but that's all. They were just cops who saw a weird looking guy doing some unusual things at a weird hour. No biggie.

Quote:

And I bet you that some of these victims of profiling DO end up on some type of watch list. its bullshit.




Well, I hope they're watching people taking lessons in how to fly commercial airliners a bit more closely than they were four years ago.

Quote:

Without 9/11 happening, there would be no Patriot Act.




Probably true. So what? Name me one thing you could legally do pre Patriot Act that you can't legally do today. What freedom of yours did the Patriot Act take away?

As for this ridiculous incident, you do realize the Secret Service had no choice but to investigate once they had been notified by another law enforcement agency? I mean that literally -- they had no choice.




Phred


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InvisibleSoularize
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4779589 - 10/10/05 12:37 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

sigh

your outlook is of a pretty biased, stubborn approach. I can tell that pretty much anything I offer in conversation with you will be of a total waste. lol oh well, Im fairly stubborn myself...

Perhaps having one's personal privacy and freedom molested by the government doesn't bother you as much as it does me. Good for you.

The problem is that the Patriot Act isnt strictly focused on terror. There are sections of the Patriot Act that have absolutely NOTHING to do with catching terrorists.

I doubt that you realize the full effects that this law has on society; There are plenty of political activists, people involved in peace organizations - commonly anit-war protesters - who are basically bullied by their own government...some of these peaceful individuals end up being investigated by Secret Services, put on a government watch list...HOW THE FUCK DO ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS INVOLVED IN PEACE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM?

You cannot honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly experiences real problems from all of this crap. Being put on a fucking watch list is real, its serious, and definitely seems to have extreme potential of debilitating a person's life and their psyche.

The Patriot Act affects the average joe - regular citizens like you and me - and it's already been used as justification for busting people on petty-ass drug crimes.

I dont mean to sound so paranoid. But you really have to ask yourself, with things like the Patriot Act being applied, "what's next?" In this regard it truly feels as if we're on a downward path.

by the way, you wouldnt happen to be a Republican would you?  :grin:


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4780106 - 10/10/05 01:47 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

So you couldn't think of anything? Don't feel bad -- no one else has been able to answer that question either.

Quote:

You cannot honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly experiences real problems from all of this crap. Being put on a fucking watch list is real, its serious, and definitely seems to have extreme potential of debilitating a person's life and their psyche.




Can you honestly sit there and ignorantly tell me that nobody truly needs to be watched more closely than the average Joe? As just one example, Muslim males aged 18 to 40 taking courses in how to fly airliners? How about people living in apartment buildings rather than on farms buying a few hundred pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer?

It is true that most people looked at will turn out to be no threat, just as most people looked at in murder cases or robberies or rapes turn out to be no threat.

While I am not comfortable with every single provision of the Patriot Act, all it really does is make it easier for the LEO to check things out. It didn't make anything citizens could do legally four years ago illegal. You are every bit as free to do what you were doing four years ago.

Some of the provisions should have been in place years ago -- for example the demolition of the Clinton/Gorelick "wall" preventing adequate information sharing between agencies, the revision of phone-tapping to reflect the realities of communication in the age of disposable cell phones, etc.

And no, I'm not a Republican. I'm not even an American, though I have visited a few places in America over the years.

But if I were an American, I'd be a whole hell of a lot more worried over how the Kelo decision by the Supreme Court might change my life than how having the SS check me out might.




Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4780148 - 10/10/05 01:53 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
About two decades ago I was playing with a radio-controlled car I'd just put together in the empty parking lot of the shopping center

Two cops got out, asked me why the hell I was out in the parking lot at that time of night

I was scooting my car under their cruiser and back again, doing donuts around their feet with it, etc.




You harrassed some cops with a remote controlled car?

:lol:  :rofl2:  :rofl: :rotfl:

You get five shrooms for that.


Edited by RandalFlagg (10/10/05 02:33 AM)


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InvisibleSoularize
slanted and enchanted
Male

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 1,155
Loc: United States
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4780207 - 10/10/05 02:09 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

Aha...I see.

Youre not even an American!!

You really have no room to speak on this subject. You don't even live in the same political/social climate that I do. There's nothing like having a foreigner tell you how life is in your own country  :smirk:

Dont bother retorting...Im finished here.


{Peace}


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Soularize]
    #4780385 - 10/10/05 02:49 AM (16 years, 16 days ago)

LOL!

SO I can't comment on what is common knowledge to anyone with an internet connection? I can't discuss happenings in any countries other than my own?

So much for the thousands of threads on Iraq and Afghanistan, I guess. There go all the hundreds of threads on sweatshop labor in Caina and third world countries too (except my posts on sweatshop labor in the country in which I live -- the Dominican Republic). No more threads on aid to Africa, no more threads on nukes in North Korea and Iran and Pakistan and India. Man, it's going to take a LONG time to delete them all.

Just because you couldn't provide an example of a freedom you've lost since the introduction of the Patriot Act doesn't mean you have to take your ball and go home. As I told you before, I don't think any less of you for failing to name one, since NOBODY has been able to name one so far.




Phred


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Phred]
    #4782063 - 10/10/05 01:27 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Phred, perhaps you can tell everyone how well Jose Padilla's rights are being protected in modern America. Sure that doesn't effect everyone, but the precedents ARE being established and will be used against others. Your unceasing expressions to blithely convince others to give the federal government a free pass on the patriot act (and torture) are, of course, completely ungrounded in the history of politics and power - in a word, naive. Do you believe everything those in power tell you? Or only that which coincides with your current prejudices? My estimation is the latter, your lack of objectivity is glaring.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4782140 - 10/10/05 01:42 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Hey...Phred knows how to fight "The Man". He harrassed some cops with his remote controlled car.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Secret Service investigates Student's anti-Bush photo [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4782904 - 10/10/05 04:28 PM (16 years, 15 days ago)

Prosgeopax writes:

Quote:

Phred, perhaps you can tell everyone how well Jose Padilla's rights are being protected in modern America.




Perhaps you could first remind the readers how Jose Padilla came to be arrested? Then you can point out which provision of the Patriot Act -- not any prior legislation -- applies to his situation.

Quote:

Your unceasing expressions to blithely convince others to give the federal government a free pass on the patriot act (and torture) are, of course, completely ungrounded in the history of politics and power - in a word, naive.




Where have I said the government should allow torture? Where have I ever given the government a "free pass" on the Patriot Act? I have said repeatedly that there are parts of the Patriot Act I feel uncomfortable with, and I have said that deciding whether torture is effective and deciding whether torture is moral are two different questions.

I have, however, correctly pointed out there was no action an American citizen could legally undertake pre Patriot Act that they cannot now legally undertake post Patriot Act. The most that ANY provision of the Patriot Act can be said to have changed is to make it less cumbersome for various government agencies to gather information on suspected terrorists (and yes -- through the principle of unintended consequences -- in some cases on those suspected of other criminal acts) and to make information sharing between those agencies more efficient than it had been in the past.

Since this act was passed by Congress, it can be challenged at any time in the appellate courts by anyone who feels their constitutional rights have been violated by government officials acting under the guidance of the Act. I am unaware of any such appeals having made their way yet all the way to the Supreme Court, however. Do you know of any? If so, I'd like to check them out. Or even for that matter any Patriot Act cases that have been decided by lower federal courts. I'm not being facetious about this, by the way -- I truly do want to look into the rulings in any such cases and would be delighted if anyone knows of any.



Phred


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