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 the universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Registered: 03/10/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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 Time 
#475603 - 12/01/01 01:25 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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What if time moved 'backwards'? What if the "big bang" happened at McKenna's 2012, and history is the explosion from that? we're coming to something more "complete" or "together" I know you can feel it, (expecially if you've read any McKenna;)) And have you recognized how things weren't near as together in the past? It might be because of the 'particles' of the explosion becoming less 'together'. Spreading out and becoming more chaotic. And how in the hell can we be moving foward if we can't see the future? That's a kind of silly question but it helps to illistrate my point. Things are coming together, apparently, and I think it's because everyithing we can't see, has allready happened, in a way our monkey brain time senses have a hard time conciving. I'm pretty drunk right now, so if the idea didn't get across right, I'm sorry. But if you got it, please respond with your'e own thoughts on the subject. :)
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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger
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Anonymous
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Time? Huh?
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Anonymous
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Oh yeah that clock thing... yeah I saw one of those once at the store
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the universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Registered: 03/10/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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 Re: Time [Re: ]
#475637 - 12/01/01 01:55 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is a convienient reference point. How many times were you trying to hook-up and the guy wanted to know when? You just have to make it up as you go along. Time is flexible like that, even though it's allready happened. Maybe on a different dimension or something. Who knows? X
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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger
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Anonymous
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Ever notice how time likes to speed up and slow down? I am under the impression that time slows down at night if you are awake...if you are asleep it goes really fast. Usually when the sun is at its peak during the day time is about average, but it seems to slow around that 2-5 zone, and from the 8-12 it goes by in about 2 earth hours.
Or take for example that I have been up all night babbling on the Inner net while I am supposed to go to work in 2 hours, and work for 10? Or how about when you wake up at 9am and lay back down for that extra 5 minutes of sleep, and you sleep for 5 minutes and wake up and it's 5 hours later.
It's a good thing Time is relative
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 Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Time is just a measure of relative changes (one object's changes in physical location in relation to another).
If time "went backwards" the beginning would just be the end.
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the universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Registered: 03/10/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Time [Re: Kid]
#475763 - 12/01/01 04:13 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Of course the beginning is the end. That's been covered. Time is relative, that's been covered too. The point is Time is moving backwards.........and fowards, sort of. Kind of like one of those acid paradoxes you come up with during your peak and everything makes sense. If time's in an infinite loop, there is no hope, but...I do think that there is hope, it's sort of a spiral......it reallly goes past human 3dimensional ways of interpreting and explaining reality. Sorry to waste your time. ;)
So maybe you're right kid, unless you were just wasting my time too.
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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger
Edited by the universe (12/01/01 04:15 AM)
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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> Of course the beginning is the end.
auw. I was just referin' to that other thread cuz I wanted to post but didn't want to...
> ......it reallly goes past human 3dimensional ways of interpreting and explaining reality
Time is an abstraction based on observed changes in our 3D world. We're invoking the ideas of the 4th dimension and the "arrow" of time to fit what we see... perhaps
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Time [Re: Kid]
#475803 - 12/01/01 05:26 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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So you're saying time is just...I dunno, speed divided by distance travelled, f'r instance? I suppose thats a good way of splitting time into "units", but I think there's more to it than that. What about particle decay? Theres a direction to that -- an irreversible change that takes place. Doesn't that suggest that time really is a fundamental feature of the universe, even if it's just a measurement of stages of decay? Or have I completely missed your point?
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Anonymous
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Re: Time [Re: Pynchon]
#475807 - 12/01/01 05:31 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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How fast is time? And what happens to time when travelling above the speed of light?
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: Time [Re: ]
#475823 - 12/01/01 06:15 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmmm. Interesting questions, now go find the answers and tell us. 
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Anonymous
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Re: Time [Re: Ulysees]
#475836 - 12/01/01 06:39 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok well apparently time will cease to exist on December 22, 2012. For us anyway.
For some people it appears to be linear, while this is simply not the case.
It seems as though the speed of light is 17 times faster in the 4th density than it is in the 3rd.
Time travel is very strictly regulated.
ack..overload.. I downloaded it but I need to sleep before it is fully processed
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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 Re: Time [Re: ]
#475838 - 12/01/01 06:42 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've got a lot of work to do before 2012 if I'm gonna stay in the game. McKenna, I wish you were still here to see it... (though perhaps it will be more exciting from his perspective.)
I'm going to have to sleep soon as well... I have to finish reading something else first.
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: Time [Re: Pynchon]
#475869 - 12/01/01 07:52 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> What about particle decay? Theres a direction to that
And the reverse process, call it particle construction. That has a direction too.
> Doesn't that suggest that time really is a fundamental feature of the universe, even if it's just a measurement of stages of decay?
But time isn't just a measurement of decay, or any physical process governed by a single law. Time is relative change. The international definition of one second is the duration an electron going around a hydrogen atom X number of times (or something very similar).
Time is in the instants, the instants are not in time. What I mean is that I think that there's no reason we should be looking at time as some type of external framework, or arena, for the physical universe to play out in. Why should we say time even exists at all? Perhaps what we interpret as time is relative configuration spaces.
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Timeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
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I think what the universe is trying to say is that time is not static. Time is not the same all the time, uh, well. Something like that.
>And how in the hell can we be moving foward if we can't see the future?
He's obviously referring to "If you move through time, and can see the past, but not the future, your'e facing the wrong way". That migh help to illustrate your point a little better:)
It has become a cliche that time is relative, so we need to come up with something more clever than that! I dig those McKenna raps, and if you view history as a series of strings, loose filaments falpping around in space(?), then it makes more sense if they are all connected at one point in the future. At least to me. History doesn't seem to be wildly fluctuating (well...), It is a much more fitting image that the threads all flow together at the end (is the beginning is the end).
Damn, I need some acid to think straight on this subject. Or mebbe just some sleep would help. Being awake for 36 hours straight does something to the time-continuum.
I certainly look forward to 2012! I am basing my whole life on the fact that it all ends in 11 years. I'm going to retire in 4 1/2 years, then I will succesively take psychedelics regularly, more and more frequently. So when 2012 comes I will not know it if McKenna's prohpecy never came true. It will be true for me . Anybody with me on this one? I need some company apart from the Man McKenna himself on the other side.
Those who live will see.
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Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org
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the universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
Registered: 03/10/99
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Under your bed
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Now that I'm sober, let me try this again-have you noticed that throughout time shit has been coming together? First there was space with its random gasses and what-not, then there were planets and stars and such formed, then life began on at least one of the planets, then this life became self-aware, and here we are with technology and culture and what-not. We know there was a "big bang" at the beginning of the universe, but why should stuff go from less complete to more? I think we're movng towards the "big bang" and that we will someday explode into relative nothingness again. So tiem moves backwards back towards this big bang. Maybe we as living concious creatures have to percieve time as moving this way so we can successfully complete our function. As this big bang obviously had some sort of conciousness as a singularity. I don't know if this is coming out right, but I gotta go right now. I don't want to lose any time getting blowed out.
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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger
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Pynchon
Slow Learner
Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 578
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: Time [Re: Kid]
#476831 - 12/02/01 03:19 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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>Perhaps what we interpret as time is relative configuration spaces.
I like this thought a lot, but there doesn't seem to be a place for any "quantum weirdness" in such a universe...unless you want to take a literal interpretation of the Schrodingers Cat paradox, which would leave the feline in question both alive and dead at the same time...heh, there's that word again ;) What I mean is that, using your "configuration spaces" idea, both configurations (alive/dead) would be equally real...
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Timeleech
addict
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Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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 Re: Time [Re: ]
#476914 - 12/02/01 07:37 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Shroomism:
>How fast is time? And what happens to time when travelling above the speed of light?
I hate to be the one quoting science on this one, but here goes:
E=mc^2: As you go faster your mass increases, and as you aproach the speed of light, your mass grows exponentially. Were you to travel at the speed of light your mass would be infinite! You would have more mass than the entire universe, and somehow that doesn't seem right to me... 
Time would stand still, as you would fill up so much space you would spill over into time and effectively block it from moving
Kid:
>The international definition of one second is the duration an electron going around a hydrogen atom X number of times (or something very similar).
Before that definition of time came up people used to measure time by the moon. What we really measure (count) are cycles. Natural cycles.
And have you noticed that at the smaller scales, cycles tend to be a lot faster? The beating of a hummingbirds heard compared to Pkuto's trip around the sun? The lifetime of a [insert name of favourite sub-atomic particle] compared to [insert favourite galaxy]?
Time seems to be moving a lot faster at the smaller scale, and if the beginning is the end, that is, we are moving towards the big bang backwards, moving towards a singularity, then everything is getting smaller.
And if everything is getting smaller, it will go faster, and faster, and faster, untill not only space itself contracts into this singularity, but time itself. Then there will truly be only *now*. That is what the merging with god might be, that's what "we are all" really means, this is what is meant by saying "everything is nothing, nothing is everything". At that singular point in time and space, everything *will be* nothing.
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--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org
Edited by Timeleech (12/02/01 07:50 AM)
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The AntiChrist
enthusiast
Registered: 10/29/00
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This is amazing, I had this excact theory in a very confusing trip about a month ago. Maybe ill write a trip report sometime, but heres a small summary (and i dont know what happend when, so its probably in the wrong order):
I realized time was going backward, I was traveling/experiencing the whole time loop, from the start to the beginning and backwards and ended up fucked up back in the normal time direction. At one "end" everything was one/monotonous and at the other "end" everything was totally split up/multicomplex.
I believe I was indeed somewhere near a turning point.
I had a memory of the future, and the more the future came close everything had to get more and more clear (pieces falling together in your mind). I "knew" the effects were to the future of things I did in the present.
I realized that the past memory system was indeed backwards.
When the trip was ending I was in a zone laying between these two experiences and this was the most disturbing, couse I vaguely knew what was going to happen in a near future, but didnt know what to do about it. My future was/will be a horrible death due to some painful accident...
I actually had totall memory loss at the end of the trip.
Now I dont know what to think of it, except it was very weird. I also forgot a lot of stuff, think my brain doenst has the capacity to understand it.
Also a big prove of time going backwards: birth, death and the live between it.
I also thought of the theory that time is going backwards and foreward at the same time, we just have to realize it. Proof of this are psychics that can predict the future.
Like a road, on each side you can go to another direction.
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the lightswitch on the wrong side
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: Time [Re: Pynchon]
#477844 - 12/02/01 11:35 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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> What I mean is that, using your "configuration spaces" idea, both configurations (alive/dead) would be equally real...
Yes. Actually, I think you could envision a universe of configuration spaces where every configuration were equally real. However, there would be many (infinite?) configuration spaces where conscious beings like ourselves have memories (or seem to have memories/evidence of a "past"), and experience Time.
> which would leave the feline in question both alive and dead at the same time...heh, there's that word again ;)
Different "place" or co-ordinate (these are relative configuration spaces). Of course coming up with a timeless model of consciousness that fits our experiences would be difficult, I think.
And yeah, describing a timeless universe without that word is tough.
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