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Offlinepschumach
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Cannabis - good or bad for the soul?
    #4751856 - 10/03/05 10:12 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Is cannabis useful as a spiritual aid/tool, or is it a distraction from one's spiritual path?
Is cannabis good or bad for the soul?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/03/05 10:11 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4751877 - 10/03/05 10:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know. I'm studying Buddhism and most seem to be vehemently against any drugs, especially cannabis because they say it clouds your mind.

Yes, it clouds your mind... when you aren't on it. I've used it to get to what I consider zazen before... but can I get there without it? Can I even focus or feel like doing anything without it? not really.

Also, my aura kind of looks hideous.... a dark yellow.

I think it's both a hinderance and a tool. It shows you where you need to go, but if you use it recreationally any direction it gave you is lost.

I'm real confused on the subject at hand right now.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4751883 - 10/03/05 10:15 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

pot did nothing but distract me from my spiritual path, along with everything else that I needed to get done in my life.

But I do say, a joint or two can turn the social atmosphere into heaven on the cherished day-off!

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Offlinepschumach
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4751892 - 10/03/05 10:17 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

amen to that

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4751949 - 10/03/05 10:25 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think having used it opens alot of doors and shows you how small normal awareness is, but after a while there isn't much new to learn. It can be fun, but it can also make you an escapist, living in a fantasy land and make you feel cloudy. Moderation is key. Pot makes me feel like nothing matters and in the long run that isn't too helpfull but it's nice to get turned on once in a while just so you know it's all still there.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4751994 - 10/03/05 10:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

When I smoke, I find it incredibly hard to meditate even for a day or two afterwards because my attention and focus is so short and fleeting. Can't focus on fucking anything...

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4752009 - 10/03/05 10:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

neither although id say overall it probably does more bad than good. you see it totally depends on your level of spiritual development and the situation in which you use it and how you make use of the insights. marijuana is what initually opened my mind to altered and heightened states of awareness and spurred my interest in transformation of consciousness and spirituality as well as expanding my tastes in art and music, so i dont think it's always bad. on the other hand i heavily abused it and as a result it did me much harm and i'm still suffering the consequences. while i was abusing it it certainly took away from my spiritual growth and anyone who is serious about spiritual growth should already be beyond the point where they need the aid provided by cannabis.

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Offlinemanna_man
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: porcupine]
    #4752198 - 10/03/05 11:05 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Weed is the apple from the tree of knowledge.

Mushrooms: same deal.



That aside, I think weed is "good for the soul" when you actually use it for what its good for and known for. That is: as a physical relaxant, or to boost creativity.

Weed's not something that should be used "to get high" simply for the sake of it, but rather a tool that should be used to accomplish a greater end.


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.

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OfflineFospher
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4752285 - 10/03/05 11:23 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
When I smoke, I find it incredibly hard to meditate even for a day or two afterwards because my attention and focus is so short and fleeting. Can't focus on fucking anything...




Funny, my opinion is the exact inverse. Unless its some heady nugs, I only like smoking very little amounts socially, anthing past that just makes me sit around and stare at my shoes.

However, I love packing a hitter before I meditate. It seems it numbs my mind of a lot of unnecessary thought that gets me from being concentrated on meditation. I've had some intense meditation sessions with the aid of grass.

It's a tool, you can use it in a negative or positive aspect.


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010001100100001001000101!

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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4752461 - 10/03/05 11:52 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I have smoked weed 23 of my 38 years and thru most experiences with spiritual things. I can say, as with many things, if what you are doing is not the focus then things seem fuzzy. The point is drugs, can bring the mind to new places but at what cost ? If what you seek is truth then drugs can not offer truth. Drugs can offer the truth of drugs.......Altered states. Truth is not an altered state of mind. Truth is truth and if one is to know things and find things. Drugs can only take you so far. As far as weed can go, straight to the lungs in thick black tar and residues.

Yes I agree that weed for the young mind can be very powerful. When a person has nothing to compare new states of mind and deeper levels of thought. The experience of weed can be very seductive. Especially when seeking the higher planes of spirituality. But one will find with trial and error that drugs are false and for recreation only. The truth in the unseen and unknown can only be found in the unseen and the unknown.


Truth is not found in the things around you but from the things within you.


Is weed good or bad ?

Nether my friend. Weed is weed and you are you.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.

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OfflineUnagipie
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4752723 - 10/04/05 12:54 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I would say it all depends on the person. While reading about "The Land of Keif" I discovered many mystics of various religious and cultural backgrounds used marijuana. For what precise reason though, I am uncertain. It is an interesting topic, that being marijuana and spirituality. There is also the relation between marijuana and Rasta, on top of Keif.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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OfflineGomp
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4753660 - 10/04/05 10:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

What ever, you make of it.. :smile:

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Offlineleery11
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Fospher]
    #4754778 - 10/04/05 02:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

dr0mni said:
When I smoke, I find it incredibly hard to meditate even for a day or two afterwards because my attention and focus is so short and fleeting. Can't focus on fucking anything...




Funny, my opinion is the exact inverse. Unless its some heady nugs, I only like smoking very little amounts socially, anthing past that just makes me sit around and stare at my shoes.

However, I love packing a hitter before I meditate. It seems it numbs my mind of a lot of unnecessary thought that gets me from being concentrated on meditation. I've had some intense meditation sessions with the aid of grass.

It's a tool, you can use it in a negative or positive aspect.



no doubt weed used properly can help you "meditate" but that's just the problem, isn't it? What happens when you try to meditate sober the next day, or the next week?

My mind is flustered and unmotivated and it's been 4 days since last consuming, and all I realy think about all day long is various drugs.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlinebkmb128
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: leery11]
    #4754838 - 10/04/05 02:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I used to enjoy using weed, but lately it seems to make me un-motivated and groggy. My roomate is a HUGE user, and he's so out of it it's not even funny...

I think weed is bad for MY soul, but for others it could be what they need.


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WEBCEST - the new definition of doing something bad on the internet. Web + Incest means it's just as dirty!

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: bkmb128]
    #4755121 - 10/04/05 04:09 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Cannabis is a harmless diversion until it's use becomes chronic. Then it is poison for the brain.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4755405 - 10/04/05 05:37 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

that was exactly my problem, I couldn't help BUT be a chronic user! I'd try and refrain, only smoking it on the weekends, but it always crept back into my free time after school, then before school. I was still getting A's and B's, but like always. But i wasted so much time not caring because I was just too high to care about the things that were really important.

it's so easy to use weed chronically. And that's where the only real danger of marijuana lies...

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4755497 - 10/04/05 06:03 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
it's so easy to use weed chronically. And that's where the only real danger of marijuana lies...




For the weak-minded and immature, this is true. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4755813 - 10/04/05 07:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

To deny that the chronic use of any drug is harmful is self deceptive. It should be noted that I am not condemning drug use, but CHRONIC drug use cannot be part of a healthy lifestyle no matter what the drug. I would tell you the same thing about caffeine, but the potential for permanent harm is slightly less. Recreational and spiritual drug use can be integrated into a healthy lifestyle if reason and moderation are observed. There are, however, many drugs whose use is dangerous no matter the frequency. In this catagory are methamphetamine, crack, heroin, etc...

I would like to address your comment that only the weak minded can fall into chronic use. This is a falsehood. Anyone can find themself in a substance dependant situation given the proper conditions for that individual are met. As someone, who is not weak minded or immature, I found myself with a chronic alcohol abuse problem. I used my will and intelligence to overcome the problem. It can happen to anyone...especially the people who indulge in their own importance and pride. I thought, at one time, that only a fool could develop such a problem...and fool I was.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/04/05 07:34 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4756052 - 10/04/05 08:41 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

yes, the lie that only a weak minded or immature person can fall into a pattern of drug abuse and dependence is one of the biggest lies used to promote drug use.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4756165 - 10/04/05 09:14 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
yes, the lie that only a weak minded or immature person can fall into a pattern of drug abuse and dependence is one of the biggest lies used to promote drug use.



Sure, but the strong-willed and mature can get out of that pattern much more easily.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4756331 - 10/04/05 09:40 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I've seen weed bring down the lives of a lot more people than I've ever seen it do any benefit. In fact, I haven't seen any benefit.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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InvisibleShroomOmatic
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4756389 - 10/04/05 09:51 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Cannabis didnt help or harm my path.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4756452 - 10/04/05 09:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think weed was a big part of my identity formation when I was in High School. It changed the way I looked at the world. It also made me think differently about drugs, which eventually led to my discovery of psychedelics.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4757581 - 10/05/05 03:18 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

hue:I would like to address your comment that only the weak minded can fall into chronic use.
I think, he ment, that only for the weak minded and immature the chronic use of cannabis holds the said dangers :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4757844 - 10/05/05 07:45 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I think after all my experience, it does cloud the mind and the soul. But many would disagree with me.

It's not what I would call "dangerous" or anything, but I think it has a way of enslaving you into thinking how harmless it is. Enslaving you into basing decisions around it. I also think it dulls your mind incredibly, which is the main reason I'm done with it.

I'm not putting it in my body anymore, that's for sure.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4758103 - 10/05/05 08:59 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, if you have a strong will and mind then it will be much easier to get out of the habit. But it has a way of making you not care whether you get out or not. I knew that I could quit for a long time, I knew that all I would have to do is stop. I wasn't physically addicted, only mentally.

But as you said, weed helped my find my identity during highschool, and the thought of giving it up created as scary feeling of not having a strong identity as I did with weed. What would I do with my spare time? What will I do with my friends who smoke weed? Will I just sit there and not smoke while they do?

Chronic use causes you to make a lot of your decisions with the drug in mind first, and when you try to exert your will and quit, you find that all these decisions you made turn from good decisions (allow you to smoke weed) to bad decisions (can't get away from weed), and it becomes that much harder to quit.

Ending a drug habit doesn't entail just not using the drug, it requires changes in your whole life! Your strong will has to be a lot stronger than you first thought it had to be in a situation like this.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4758109 - 10/05/05 09:00 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I would like to address your comment that only the weak minded can fall into chronic use. This is a falsehood. Anyone can find themself in a substance dependant situation given the proper conditions for that individual are met.




Like, what conditions? Lack of self control? :smirk:

Quote:


As someone, who is not weak minded or immature, I found myself with a chronic alcohol abuse problem. I used my will and intelligence to overcome the problem. 




Actually, it sounds like you were weak minded or immature in certain aspects, the problem arose, which then resulted in the development of strength and maturity in those aspects that initally allowed for a dependency to be created. :wink:

Also, is it true that alcohol addiction can be physical as well? If it is possible that the body itself can become addicted to alcohol, then the problem certainly isn't as simple as one's mental state (well, actually, it still is, as the mind allowed the physical addiction to develop in the first place... :lol:).

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: looner2]
    #4758115 - 10/05/05 09:04 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
I've seen weed bring down the lives of a lot more people than I've ever seen it do any benefit. In fact, I haven't seen any benefit.




I'd call into question the standards by which you judge the experience of others and whether or not it is a benefit to them. :lol: Either that or study more people involved with smoking marijuana. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4758135 - 10/05/05 09:10 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I would like to address your comment that only the weak minded can fall into chronic use. This is a falsehood. Anyone can find themself in a substance dependant situation given the proper conditions for that individual are met.




Like, what conditions? Lack of self control? :smirk:

Quote:


As someone, who is not weak minded or immature, I found myself with a chronic alcohol abuse problem. I used my will and intelligence to overcome the problem. 




Actually, it sounds like you were weak minded or immature in certain aspects, the problem arose, which then resulted in the development of strength and maturity in those aspects that initally allowed for a dependency to be created. :wink:

Also, is it true that alcohol addiction can be physical as well? If it is possible that the body itself can become addicted to alcohol, then the problem certainly isn't as simple as one's mental state (well, actually, it still is, as the mind allowed the physical addiction to develop in the first place... :lol:).

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




:whatever:

some people will make all the excuses they can to deny that their habits are hurting them... I know I did.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4758160 - 10/05/05 09:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
Yes, if you have a strong will and mind then it will be much easier to get out of the habit. But it has a way of making you not care whether you get out or not.




Your thoughts might have a way of making you not care whether or not you "get out or not". I place emphasis on my statement that a developed and mature mind will not run faulty thought processes that would be responsible for chronic use of the chronic (:smirk:) in the first place.

Quote:


But as you said, weed helped my find my identity during highschool, and the thought of giving it up created as scary feeling of not having a strong identity as I did with weed. What would I do with my spare time? What will I do with my friends who smoke weed? Will I just sit there and not smoke while they do?




This sounds like the testament of a mind that was not fully developed at the time and was still maturing to me. Perhaps the key words are "high school" (:grin: high school :stoned:).

I'm not placing judgement. It is obvious that, from being in such a situation, you have furthered and bettered (is that a word? :confused:) yourself more than you would if you never had to deal with such issues. I'm simply expressing the view that a conscious, aware person with efficent thought processes can effectively use marijuana and any other drug with maximum yield without ever developing any sort of dependency or need for constant use.

Quote:


Ending a drug habit doesn't entail just not using the drug, it requires changes in your whole life!




I wouldn't necessarily say that it requires changing your whole life (how do you do that, anyways? :laugh:), I would state that it requires changing one's thoughts. :tongue:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4758170 - 10/05/05 09:22 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
:whatever:

some people will make all the excuses they can to deny that their habits are hurting them... I know I did.




I'm sure you did. Perhaps it is important to realize that your personal experience with something and the way that your own mind operates could be completely different than another person's.

I'm confused as to why you replied with such a comment. Are you implying that I personally am a chronic marijuana user, and that I am making excuses in this thread? :grin: I can't really perceive what it is that you are basing that upon, considering that you have no insight into who I am, the decisions I make, the way my mind operates, and what I concern myself with. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4758179 - 10/05/05 09:25 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"Like, what conditions? Lack of self control?"
Exactly. Every human is subject to experiencing lack of control at some point or other.

"Actually, it sounds like you were weak minded or immature in certain aspects, the problem arose, which then resulted in the development of strength and maturity in those aspects that initially allowed for a dependency to be created"

To a certain extent yes. It must be said that I was as strong minded and mature as the average human tends to be. Your argument now seems to be that IF one is a SUPER HUMAN who never experiences loss of control or moments of immaturity they can avoid chronic substance abuse. The problem with this is that no human meets this standard. It also must be said that genetic predispositions also come into play. I know of many, many humans who have never been subject to a dependency issue who are weak minded and immature. They simply were not genetically predisposed which reduced (not eliminated) the chance that they would encounter the proper conditions for having this problem. I come from a long line of alcoholics going back as many as 5 generations to my knowledge...so I have a lineage so to speak. People who are predisposed to substance dependency can find a focal point with any physically or psychologically addictive substance. To say that only the weak minded can experience this problem is just a bit naive and deceptive. There are many factors that can determine one's relationship to drugs so to narrow it down to just being weak is deductively invalid. I have noticed, however, that the exercise of the will that is required to drop a substance abuse problem often results in the individual in question becoming more disciplined in other aspects of their life as well. I have seen this many times.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4758244 - 10/05/05 09:42 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
Chronic use causes you to make a lot of your decisions with the drug in mind first, and when you try to exert your will and quit, you find that all these decisions you made turn from good decisions (allow you to smoke weed) to bad decisions



Ending a drug habit doesn't entail just not using the drug, it requires changes in your whole life!




There. I couldn't have said it better if I tried.


--------------------
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4758252 - 10/05/05 09:47 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

you protest too much! :lol:


--------------------
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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4758430 - 10/05/05 10:30 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

FWG, you're right. I don't know who you are or what your habits are. I don't even know if you smoke weed at all! But the things you are saying sound exactly like the shit I used to say when I was in denial. That's all I'm trying to say.

And you're right, I wasn't mature enough to handle drugs when I started using them. But let me ask you, how many of us started using drugs AFTER highschool?

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
To a certain extent yes. It must be said that I was as strong minded and mature as the average human tends to be. Your argument now seems to be that IF one is a SUPER HUMAN who never experiences loss of control or moments of immaturity they can avoid chronic substance abuse. The problem with this is that no human meets this standard.




:thumbup:

we should all remember to humble ourselves and admit that we all make mistakes and error in judgement. I once thought I was above drug addiction, that I was too mature and smart to let it happen to me. But then I found myself in a life completely centered on drugs and nothing else. I still am not sure exactly how it happened...

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4758910 - 10/05/05 12:06 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

This topic is so 2 dimensional.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4759177 - 10/05/05 01:25 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Smoking marijuana before meditation is a great thing. Smoking marijuana too much lowers my attention span by alot.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Rebirtha]
    #4760136 - 10/05/05 05:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
But let me ask you, how many of us started using drugs AFTER highschool?




Me.

For me all the motivational/attention paying problems occur when I'm not stoned... this past week has been rather hazy and stupid, my brain is trying to adjust to not having as much THC I guess. But I'm getting better and had a great meditation session today.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: leery11]
    #4760162 - 10/05/05 06:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Marijuana generally helps me focus and concentrate. It has also allowed me to think things through more thoroughly. Cannabis is good for my soul. But everyone has to find what works for them on their own path.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: demiu5]
    #4761328 - 10/05/05 10:35 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, leery is ONE person... that's still not a majority...

I'm really suprised to hear people say that marijuana helps them concentrate better. Could this be likened to how some people say that they drive better stoned? Or is there really increased concentration?

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4761658 - 10/05/05 11:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

there is really an increased focusing ability on marijuana. when i smoke marijuana i have the power to focus and hold my attention on one thing without becomming distracted. in fact my favorite thing to do while high was to focus my attention on music and allow my consciousness to become absorbed in it and flow with it. another example: one time i got high and an insect landed on my leg. instead of just brushing the insect off like i would sober i became captivated staring at it, studying all its intricate parts. ive also experienced a greater ability to focus on reading and during class, not necessarily while high but after getting high and remebering the state of focus marijiuana allowed me to acheive. when im actually high i can become so focused i won't even understand what the professor says because i am so focused on the perception of his/her voice for instance.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4763015 - 10/06/05 08:53 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I understand what you're saying, but for me it feels like my focus isn't increasing so much as it is narrowing. I feel like I've got "tunnel vision" so to speak, and that all I can focus on is one thing at a time. My attention span won't allow for much else.

Also, even though I might be able to focus on one thing at a time, I would never be able to concentrate on it for a decent amount of time while stoned. As soon as something would grab my attention it would have all of my focus, and I would get distracted from what I was originally doing.

but that's my experiance anyways.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4763046 - 10/06/05 09:01 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I understand what you're saying, but for me it feels like my focus isn't increasing so much as it is narrowing. I feel like I've got "tunnel vision" so to speak, and that all I can focus on is one thing at a time. My attention span won't allow for much else.




I get this...but what I found after smoking daily for a little while was this: You have to learn to control it. Learn first how to take control of things like your eyes, making them focus and unfocus instantly if you want them to. Try to alter your hearing perception when say, listening to music...focus on one part, let it take you on its ride, then focus on another part and so on. Then listen to it as a whole.

Quote:

Also, even though I might be able to focus on one thing at a time, I would never be able to concentrate on it for a decent amount of time while stoned. As soon as something would grab my attention it would have all of my focus, and I would get distracted from what I was originally doing.




You don't learn to walk by immediately getting up and going. Your legs have to build muscle, and motor functions have to improve.

It just takes time and will to build up to how many things you can focus on at a given moment.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: demiu5]
    #4763563 - 10/06/05 11:17 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

yeah, so you're basically saying that you have to put effort into it, right? Well I just think I can more efficiently exert effort sober. Plus I was just due for a change in my life anyways.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4764490 - 10/06/05 03:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Marijuana infacts makes you forget that you can already do that, so it sort of distorts your brain but you some how start to believe that you suddenly can focus better.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Droz]
    #4765042 - 10/06/05 05:06 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Marijuana infacts makes you forget that you can already do that, so it sort of distorts your brain but you some how start to believe that you suddenly can focus better.




Don't use the word "fact" unless you can show proof. No offense, but please show me proof.

Whether I believe it or it is real...my attitude about almost everything changed when I became a daily user. I saw that I needed to set goals for myself. I went from being a C and D student to being an A student. So far I've kept that up. That's my personal proof, that is what I know, for me, works.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: demiu5]
    #4765321 - 10/06/05 06:08 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

i'm not trying to argue with you here, Demius. I just want to share a bit more of my own experiance...

I was an A student all through every year of school. I was also stoned almost every day of school. I've always been an A student, and probably always will be. Pot never affected my school work, or how well I functioned in the world, and I thought that meant that it wasn't hurting me. But in actuality I was still unhappy. I used pot as a crutch because I didn't know how to have normal fun. I admired people who could hang out with their friends sober and still have fun, but I just didn't know how to do it myself. I'm finally learning...

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4767003 - 10/07/05 12:05 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Like I said earlier, everyone has to find what works for them. That's kind of how alcohol is for me. I used to drink everyday back in my sophmore year of high school. come home, get drunk, do my work, go to sleep. I found that I became fairly depressed. So I stopped drinking, and still very rarely do.

It all depends on the person.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4767023 - 10/07/05 12:10 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

to put it simply, everything in moderation ... every tool that exists in this world can also be a hinderance, but ONLY when used irresponsibly ...

moderation and responsibility means using it not based on how others use it, or how you feel it should be used, or even what erowid says ... but rather how it affects YOU personally ... the minimum dose necessary for me tends to carry the maximum potential with minimum side effects ... and whenever i go past that dose, i always regret it later in one way or another ... and with each further time where i dose too high, i tend to create a negative pattern in myself which gets harder and harder to abstain from ...

a common misconception is that pot is harmless or that it isn't a drug ... this is laughable! it CAN be harmless, but again, only with the right moderation, based on your personal experience with the drug and with different doses ...

for example ... using it to get stoned before cleaning your room may make it seem like cleaning your room will be less mundane ... as true as this can be, once you are done cleaning, you no longer have a 'victory bowl' to celebrate the work you just did ... you can HAVE the victory bowl, but it will not feel the same ... you need the contrast of real, effort-filled sober living to truly enjoy the stoned-ness of pot ...

to expand the topic though, i feel it should be clear whether we are talking about sativas or indicas ... for those who don't get the choice, this question may not be applicable ... but truly the difference between a pure white widow sativa and a pure hashplant indica is phenomenal enough to warrant labelling this distinction ...

on a personal note, for the first time in a while i have been clean of pot for a few days, with positive results and the motivation to continue this abstinence further ... because not only will my sober life be enhanced by this necessary break, but my pot usage later will be more educated and more enjoyable, too ...

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: HB]
    #4767688 - 10/07/05 06:14 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." -William Blake

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4768204 - 10/07/05 09:31 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

maybe for some ... although there is definitely wisdom to be found through listening to others, i prefer to listen to my own body than to famous names or majorities when it comes to my health and happiness ...

:wink:

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4768265 - 10/07/05 09:47 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
I understand what you're saying, but for me it feels like my focus isn't increasing so much as it is narrowing. I feel like I've got "tunnel vision" so to speak, and that all I can focus on is one thing at a time. My attention span won't allow for much else.





Yep. I once mistook it for increased focus as well, but I found it's just a narrowed focus. For me at least.

My life has become so much better since I let the weed go.


--------------------
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4768340 - 10/07/05 10:09 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

that william blake quote reminds me of what I always say: Sometimes we have to go through dark times in our lives before we can see the light.

I can see how that Blake quote could be gravely misinterpreted...

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4768371 - 10/07/05 10:20 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I thank cannabis for all the doors it opened for me. shrooms and ayahuasca came into my life because of that special plant. it helped me heal much pain and suffering. it helped me find myself again. but then I finally had to learn to live without it. because repeated chronic use and abuse brought me to a wreck. shrooms saved me there. they opened the way for freedom when I realized how cannabis could kill a shroom trip. it's not always the case as I find this to be one of the most complex equations of psychedelic use. but more and more I prefer not mixing cannabis with shrooms.
if I spend one week smoking cannabis daily, I'm sure to get all messed up. and of course the first day without smoking is always terrible, but I do believe the best way, at least for me, is smoking a maximum of three days per week.
I wouldn't quit cannabis because it provides very interesting moments, particularly when discussing philosophy/metaphysical issues with my wife or listening to music lying down alone in the dark. but I do have to impose strict discipline on myself to be able to smoke only twice/thrice a week.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4768379 - 10/07/05 10:23 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

How do you know your interpretation is correct? I've never heard the quote described in that way.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: freddurgan]
    #4768397 - 10/07/05 10:27 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yep. I once mistook it for increased focus as well, but I found it's just a narrowed focus. For me at least.

My life has become so much better since I let the weed go.





For some, this narrowing of focus is a blessing. I honestly feel that for myself, the narrow focus achieved with marijuana is impossible to achieve without it. I use marijuana as a practice tool in music, to develop my chops due to the focus it provides. I never use marijuana creatively, for it constrains me and blows up my sense of self-consciousness. Similarly, I never write creatively with marijuana, but I have been known to edit my papers while high on cannabis. Marijuana creates a super-awareness in myself of myself, so that superficiality in my writing becomes ultra-apparent, and I'm able to fix it as a result.

Because of this self-consciousness that marijuana instills, I HATE to use it socially, or in the daytime, or more than once a week. An eighth of an ounce tends to last me three to six months. It's a tool, and my mind would not benefit from abusing it.

In all honesty I am scared of marijuana. Thus I respect it.


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4768514 - 10/07/05 10:51 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

"How do you know your interpretation is correct? I've never heard the quote described in that way."

well the idea that excess is what causes wisdom seems foolish to me. Excess is a result of ignorance (please don't pick too much at my word choice here). Excess is not a virtue. The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom only if we learn from our mistakes.

Learning from experiance is the source of wisdom. And if you go down the road of excess you learn from experiance that it only brings suffering... and thus you are led to the palace of wisdom.

why, how did you interpret it?

and the beauty of interpretation is that they are subjective, and thus equally valid, even if they don't match up with the writers' original intention.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4768613 - 10/07/05 11:14 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I always figured it was somewhere along the same lines as what Rimbaud was saying when he described "a reasoned derangement of the senses" in order to attain enlightenment.

The *above Blake quote* was also where Jim Morrison derived the band name for the Doors, and you can see how his interpretation was directly reflected in his lifestyle. Not that I'm trying to claim that Jim Morrison's interpretation of Blake and Rimbaud is necessarilly correct, just an interesting example.

edit: What the fuck am I talking about? It was a different Blake quote that inspired The Doors' band name.

"If the doors of perception were cleansed, things would appear to man as they truly are; infinite."

That makes more sense.

Edited by itstarssaddam (10/07/05 04:47 PM)

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4769280 - 10/07/05 01:21 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Rimbaud shot his best friend and lover then became a jungle-man and died of malaria or some crap.

And converted to christianity on his death bed.


--------------------
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Edited by IgnatiusJReilly (10/07/05 01:22 PM)

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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4769847 - 10/07/05 03:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

IgnatiusJReilly said:
And converted to christianity on his death bed.




Sorry to hear that.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #4769880 - 10/07/05 03:30 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

i don't mean to interupt here but i just wanted to share my experience of the path of excess. i completely agree with dr0mni in that the path of excess is only useful if we learn from it. when you take the path to excess there will come a time where you will begin to understand where it leads and see that it ultimately ends in self destruction. when you see that you then have the option to get off that path and instead follow the path to higher consciousness and psychological well being. once i got off the path to excess (which consisted of smoking marijuana multiple times every day) i found it was so much easier to resist the temptation of excess with all things. why? because i know where it leads and it did not lead to happiness or relief from suffering, since i know i want my suffering to be relieved and i know that in the end the path of excess will only make it worse there is very little temptation to take that path. however it seems like not all people on the path of excess see this or they get so far down the path that they no longer have the strength to get off. for example i have a friend who is an alcoholic, me and all my freinds can see that it is destroying his life and slowly killing him. everytime we see him he looks pailer and sicker and it is very sad for us, yet he only knows how to find relief in more alcohol and it will eventually lead to his own destruction.

as for jim morrison, sure you may glimpse enlightenment if you derange your senses long enough but sometime you are going to need to turn around completely. did morrisoin ever turn around? or did he die from a drug accident?

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4770031 - 10/07/05 04:26 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
did morrisoin ever turn around? or did he die from a drug accident?




No, Morrison never turned around, and that is why I admire him. He lived life on his own terms, regardless of what anyone thought, even the people closest to him. Yes, he did die young, but he crammed more living into his 27 years than the majority of people who live long healthy lives ever will. Also, there is no way to know for sure what exactly caused his death, as this has remained a mystery for 35 years now, and the only woman who knows died shortly after he did.

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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4770047 - 10/07/05 04:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I have no path, I just exist and die.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4770104 - 10/07/05 04:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

do you admire crackheads for living their lives on their own terms? what about murderers and rapists? jim morrison was an interesting man and i admire him as well but not simply because he "lived his life on his own terms". i live my life on my own terms regardless of what people think (which is why most of my friends think i'm nuts) but i didn't find happiness in excessive drug abuse or many of the other mundane pleasures most people consider "living". to me living is connecting with the "river of life" which is ever flowing and continually transcending itself and when i am one with it i am living. in fact in my opinion all people are seeking this feeling of life, they just go about acheiving it in different ways, most of the time unconsioussly.

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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Fliquid]
    #4770105 - 10/07/05 04:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

deep

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Fliquid]
    #4770111 - 10/07/05 04:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fliquid said:
I have no path, I just exist and die.




then that is your path.

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OfflineFliquid
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4770227 - 10/07/05 05:34 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Fliquid said:
I have no path, I just exist and die.




then that is your path.




You have a serious case of path fetish dude.  :grin:
You think in paths, there are no paths in my way of thinking.


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OfflineJ4S0N
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: pschumach]
    #4770266 - 10/07/05 05:55 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

This thread reminds me of this quote:

"...you know, what you have to bear in mind is this: drug receptors are as individual a thing as height, hair color, eye color, and so forth. And it is simply true that we are born with affinities for certain drugs, and a lack of affinity for others.

The Irish are supposed to be able to drink. I can't drink. If I have two beers, then I'm worthless.

So I think that part of what growing into drug awareness means is not taking every drug and every combination around, but actually learning what works for you. Another good example is the tropanes. I would say that maybe 19 out of 20 people- including myself- should have nothing to do with that stuff. But there do seem to be people who can handle it."

-Terence McKenna

People often say that Cannabis makes them unmotivated, and lose focus.  For me its always been the opposite.  I would always perform better on tests in school if I had smoked before.  I know some very creative and happy people who have smoked daily for 30+ years.  People often blame a drug for their feelings, but you make your feelings.  If you believe Cannabis makes you lazy, then you will smoke it and be lazy. 

Im not saying Cannabis is for everyone, just find what works for you.  I love growing Cannabis, and I love enjoying Cannabis :smile:


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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: J4S0N]
    #4771004 - 10/07/05 09:31 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

it is all dependent on how strong your mind is and how much you know and are willing to accept before you give up

for me it allows energy control and conscious awareness (i mean real awareness) and i often meditate and have oobe's... for many though, they forget how to use drugs to benefit themselves, and stay stuck in this world and never sit down and take a minute to think.

pm me if you dont know what im talking about


its all about perception.


And paths do exist, and there is a beginning and an end to your path, but it is still possible to change your path, or at least make it easier to follow rather than just guessing the whole way

and if you just exist and die, you are a sad individual, i know because i used to be

Quote:

People often say that Cannabis makes them unmotivated, and lose focus. For me its always been the opposite. I would always perform better on tests in school if I had smoked before. I know some very creative and happy people who have smoked daily for 30+ years. People often blame a drug for their feelings, but you make your feelings. If you believe Cannabis makes you lazy, then you will smoke it and be lazy.

Im not saying Cannabis is for everyone, just find what works for you. I love growing Cannabis, and I love enjoying Cannabis




there is very much truth to that statement, whenever i smoke i either want to meditate or go do something fun and exciting, experience everything i can... its different for different people, but you can affect how it affects you, thats what is beautiful about life


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos

Edited by TheGus (10/07/05 09:36 PM)

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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Cannabis - good or bad for the soul? [Re: Deviate]
    #4773343 - 10/08/05 03:32 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
do you admire crackheads for living their lives on their own terms? what about murderers and rapists? jim morrison was an interesting man and i admire him as well but not simply because he "lived his life on his own terms". i live my life on my own terms regardless of what people think (which is why most of my friends think i'm nuts) but i didn't find happiness in excessive drug abuse or many of the other mundane pleasures most people consider "living". to me living is connecting with the "river of life" which is ever flowing and continually transcending itself and when i am one with it i am living. in fact in my opinion all people are seeking this feeling of life, they just go about acheiving it in different ways, most of the time unconsioussly.




:thumbup:




Oh, and we are ALWAYS walking a path, even if we are creating it as we walk. Every destination has a path that leads to it.

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