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Offlinenubbin101
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wow, i cant wait...
    #4751339 - 10/03/05 10:10 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

...for the day when this technology manifests...

http://www.foresight.org/nanofactory.mov


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: nubbin101]
    #4751349 - 10/03/05 10:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Wishing the comming of nanotechnology is a horrible thing. It will be the end of the world.


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Offlinenubbin101
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4751429 - 10/03/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i dont think so, everyone has nukes and we are ok, some how...


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: nubbin101]
    #4751450 - 10/03/05 10:30 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, but nukes are not microscopic. We can do things with nanotechnology that most people cannot even fathom.


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Offlinenubbin101
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4751505 - 10/03/05 10:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

yea but much like most new technologies the US will dominate it first and maintain a control over it, i dont think that we will do anything bad with it (only thing we did with nukes was japan) at least i hope not :0!


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: nubbin101]
    #4751515 - 10/03/05 10:48 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

hahahaha.


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Offlinenubbin101
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4751547 - 10/03/05 10:54 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

argument aside, i do think that technology in general will be the end of us, but think of all the versatile modern solutions it will bring  :naughty:


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: nubbin101]
    #4751565 - 10/03/05 10:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I most certainly agree. If I didn't think that it would be the end of the world, I'd be on the front line pioneering the technology. We could do great things with nanotechnology. But we could do horrible horrible things as well, and that's what will inevitably happen. And it's going to be damn near imposable to prevent.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4752738 - 10/04/05 02:56 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

We already have nanotechnology.  You are constantly immersed in a veritable ocean of nanobots at all times.  They are flying into your ears, eyes, nose, mouth and into every open wound you get.  They live in your blood stream and even up your ass.  They come in endless shapes and sizes, and use all kinds of machines to find food, eat, and move around. 

It is unlikely that anything we make will be better suited to the environment or multiplication than they are.  Some bacteria would be capable of multiplying from single cell to billions of tons in a few days if they were supplied with enough food.  This doesn't happen because resources are limited.  Even these beings which have been specializing for billions of years are kept in balance by these forces.  Creating a "robot bacterium" would be unthinkably more complicated than making a "robot dog," something which we can't even convincingly pull of today. 

If you're thinking that our nanobots could out-do nature by eating rocks and using the sun for energy, just think, there already are bacteria that eat rock and use the sun for energy.  It's all been done.  Get out of your caves and embrace the future :wink:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4753078 - 10/04/05 08:52 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

True nanotech would far surpass anything bacteria could ever accomplish.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4753084 - 10/04/05 08:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rustifer said:
Wishing the comming of nanotechnology is a horrible thing. It will be the end of the world.




Nanotech has obvious (and not so obvious) dangers to it, but I don't think it will be the "end of the world" as you say. People said the same thing about nukes, when they were first being invented. Quite a few of the scientists involved thought that the first nuclear test was going to burn off the entire Earth's atmosphere! Thus it is with any new technology...

I am quite positive that there will be accidents with nanotech if/when it becomes significantly advanced. However I think if there are any major accidents, it will very quickly force everyone to wake up and take a little more responsibility with nanotech.

Also remember that if/when nanotech becomes feasible, the military will be ALL OVER IT from Day 1. Yes, they will probably be the ones who design and build the scariest of the nanotech...but that will force them to be also be the ones to build the best DEFENSIVE nanotech (they'll have to protect themselves as much as their enemies).

The best way to fight nanotech is with more nanotech :smirk:

There's a GREAT story-line up on Orion's Arm that details a hypothetical nano-disaster in humanity's future. GREAT READ!!!

http://www.orionsarm.com/historical/nanodisaster.html

Quote:

Few events in the early interplanetary history of mindkind have imprinted on the galactic noosphere as much as the Nanodisaster, a tragic chain of events that took over five billion lives, and the period that follows, often referred to as the Second Dark Age.




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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: trendal]
    #4753096 - 10/04/05 09:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

On the other hand, functional nanotech would completely destroy the economy.

Imagine you could "plant a seed" in your backyard, and a week later have a brand new Mercedes. Or an interstellar spacecraft. Such a thing would be possible with true nanotech. Anyone could have anything they want, at any time, reguardless of cost or materials (technically at ZERO cost and using ANY materials available).


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: trendal]
    #4753202 - 10/04/05 10:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
True nanotech would far surpass anything bacteria could ever accomplish.




What do you mean by "true nanotech"?

I agree that with nanotechnology, we'll be able to do things that bacteria can't---in specific situations. But my point is, there are "infinitely" complicated nanobots surrounding us at all times, and the problems they pose are few. In fact, they're generally beneficial to the species as a whole. Anything we invent can't hold a candle to the complexity inherent in them. We may be able to make a bot that in the exact right conditions can generate a mercedes, but move it to the other room and it just becomes a piece of dust.

Scenarios such as the one where "gray goo" takes over the world by reducing it to a barren wasteland, are as close to impossible as I can imagine. I see far more dangers from genetically engineering currently existing pathogens, which has been going on for decades and doesn't (necessarily) involve nanotech at all.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #4753297 - 10/04/05 10:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But that's just my point: we can create far more simple nanobots to do general actions, whereas bacteria are all very complex "bots" with specific actions/needs.

By "true nanotech" I mean technology on a nanometer scale (down to atomic sizes). Bacteria are an order of magnitude or two larger than this. All that added complexity results in more complex requirements. Imagine a nanobot just a few hundred atoms large which action was to break hydrogen bonds...a simple bot doing a simple task, but one with the potential to destroy most of the molecules in existence (at least within a specified area). With "true nanotech" I would also include true self-replicators...so imagine a nanobot that not only breaks every hydrogen bond it encounters but also uses all carbon it encounters to make copies of itself. Carbon and hydrogen are two of the most abundant atoms in the universe, so there would be no shortage of available materials - in essence no environment not perfect for such a bot's replication.

Of course that's all theoretical, but I doubt such things are impossible given sufficiently advanced nanotech.


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: trendal]
    #4753363 - 10/04/05 11:19 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I want a mercedes seed.


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4753429 - 10/04/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But now that I'm more awake, I don't think that I'm going to get to see anything like a nanobot that is self replicating and enters your blood stream and kills you. It will happen eventually, but not in the next 100 years. But we're already talking about doing crazy things with it. (Like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator) I don't want that shit falling on my planet.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4753600 - 10/04/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think the potential benefits far outweigh the potential risks.


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InvisibleRustifer
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: trendal]
    #4753608 - 10/04/05 12:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

They do, I'm just paranoid and don't really care about much other than myself.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: trendal]
    #4758381 - 10/05/05 12:21 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
By "true nanotech" I mean technology on a nanometer scale (down to atomic sizes). Bacteria are an order of magnitude or two larger than this. All that added complexity results in more complex requirements.




But bacteria are composed of nanomachines. Everything involved in DNA replication, for example, operates on nanoscale. Proton pumps, enzymes, you name it have operating areas of several to tens of nanometers. Viruses are for the most part entirely nanoscopic entities.

Quote:


Imagine a nanobot just a few hundred atoms large which action was to break hydrogen bonds...a simple bot doing a simple task, but one with the potential to destroy most of the molecules in existence (at least within a specified area).





Where would it get the energy to continue breaking bonds (a process which is generally thermodynamically unfavorable)? As long as energy is required, there is a bottleneck. I'm assuming you mean actual covalent bonds and not hydrogen bonds, since these are made and broken millions of times per second anyway...

Quote:


With "true nanotech" I would also include true self-replicators...so imagine a nanobot that not only breaks every hydrogen bond it encounters but also uses all carbon it encounters to make copies of itself.





These are exactly the kinds of devices which I anticipate will never be made. Or at least I see the need to worry about them (either on my own behalf or that of future humans) as much less than the need to worry about being hit by a meteor. There are several reasons for my skepticism, but at least we both agree that the need to worry isn't so great : )


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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: wow, i cant wait... [Re: Rustifer]
    #4758770 - 10/05/05 01:37 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Most of it would (theoretically) burn up in the atmosphere. I'd love to see one of these engineered. No more clunky space shuttle take-offs.


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