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OfflineKonnrade
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Avoiding mescaline nausea?
    #4748253 - 10/03/05 06:26 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Lately I've been trying to get acquainted with my pedros, but their flavor has been kicking my butt royally.

The first time I had used some MJ prior to cushion the low dose and prevent puking. But on the last swig of a mild tea I gagged and nearly tossed my cookies. I got it down, but the cacti were rather weak and the dose disappointed.

The second time my dose was a lot bigger, but about 2/3 the way through the (thicker) tea I gagged on a swig, accidentally spit it out, and lost the contents of my stomach. My thoughts were hard to control and my limbs got rubbery, but not a positive effect at all. And after the weird hurling I had a pavlovian effect patterned into me where the smell or taste (which I could handle a little before) makes me gag.

What should I do? I boiled down some tar and put it in my freezer, but havent gotten around to trying to take it in that form (like a pill) yet. Any success with this method? Should I take some promethazine (rX anti-nausea) before a dose in addition to trying to avoid the taste?

The ingestion probs have kept me from breaking through. And in all other ways I've prepared myself for the experience.

Pending a time when I have access to shrooms, this is what I have available.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Offlinedeficitism
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4748280 - 10/03/05 07:21 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Stick with the naturals. Try adding a bit of ginger to your mix. Actually its best if you take the ginger 30 mins - 1 hour before you chug your piss... I mean cacti tea.

I can tell you that this will probably NOT reduce taste induced nausea.


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"Someday after mastering the winds, waves, tides and gravity, we shall harness the energies of love, and then, for the second time in the history of the world, man will discover fire." -Teilhard de Chardin


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OfflineLibertarian
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: deficitism]
    #4749443 - 10/03/05 03:36 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Why don't you just dry it, and blend it and stuff it into gel caps? You can get 1000+ capsules from the capsule king for like $2. You will end up taking between 40-80 of them, but spaced out over 1-1 1/2 hrs it isn't so bad. I can never drink it again, i have too weak of a stomach, when I drink it I actually feel a wave of fear, because I have such a sensitive gag reflex


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Libertarian]
    #4750004 - 10/03/05 05:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Shulgin reccomends imbibing mescaline over a period of time to avoid the nausea. Personally, I would reccomend going the tar route, or hell do the whole acid/base extraction and get the mescaline salts.

Then put the salts in OJ and sip it over time, and you could quite possibly avoid the nausea. Also, I would reccomend a combination of peppermint and ginger tea to reduce nausea. Some MJ smoked after drinking the Ginger/pepper mint tea will also reduce the nausea.

I wouldn't reccomend smoking till your stupid, but just a hit or two to lower the tension. The gelcaps is a good idea, but sometimes a large amount of pills can cause its own nausea by the feel in your stomach.
Take it from a guy who has taken alot of cough pills for a DXM trip. But that sort of nausea is a whole lot easier to 'stomach'. The tea is an easy way of extracting the good stuff, but its alot harder to take down.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: RussianCelery]
    #4750502 - 10/03/05 07:16 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the feedback.

blegh. Well I guess I'll give the tar a try, since I allready have it.

It's tempting to go order some more pachanoi and learn the acid/base extraction, since without the added flavor of the cactus flesh and juices I can handle the mescaline salts. And well, the salts would allow a lot more versatility in how to consume it.

Anyone recommend a particular acid/base tek?


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750727 - 10/03/05 08:08 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Umm, I believe that great website erowid has one, but the premise is usually the same every time...

Bring the cactus mush down to a lower PH probably about 1-2 (you boil it with lemon juice so 2 is a safe pH). Extract the cactus several times with increasing amounts of times inbetween placing it in new solution.

Defat the solution with a nonpolar solvent (naptha is usually used). Defat three times to make sure you have a cleaner sample. Then raise the pH to about 11 to make the Mescaline a freebase. Then put the non-polar solvent into the solution extracting the freebase. Extract and save the non-polar solvent.

Then Raise the pH of the non-polar solvent with HCL to turn the freebase into salts. Then evaporate the solvent and you have a crude extract of the Alkolid Salts.
You could just do a ethanol extraction, and get a nice tar with that, but the acid/base will give you a nicer purer extract.

There are some shortcuts, like nearly freezing the naptha and just taking the freebase form of the mescaline. All in all, its not a difficult thing to do, its just a more lengthy process than doing a tea or ethanol extract.


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OfflineTetrisRocks
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750734 - 10/03/05 08:10 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Try putting it in a wide mouth cup and just chugging it down all at once.

Just put it out of your mind. If you sip it slow the taste will get to you worse. Just bang it like a shot.

That's how I take an 8 ounce of tussin, or a bottle of zicam, very vile stuff. No fun to drink at all, expecaily in bulk. But with many drugs purging is often hard to avoid, and can actually somewhat part of the psychedelic experience an enchance it's importance. Though, if you plan on using mescaline on a regular basis I could see why a pill alternative might be more appealing.

Diphenhydramine, found in benadryl and most generic allergy medicines is very effective for countering sickness. Unfortunetly it also has the side effect of making you damn tired. I don't think it would do anything for taste induced sickness though.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: RussianCelery]
    #4750782 - 10/03/05 08:20 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I guess I'll have to give the acid/base approach a shot. It gives me a chance to do some of my beloved chemistry work, inside of my own home.

Time is not a problem. As it is I spend a whole day's worth of free time making the cactus extract.

The salts could then be ingested any number of ways. I could even make precisely dosed gelcaps. Imagine if you will a man who provided mescaline in a pill form of rather reliable dosage size. Would you not value such a resource highly?

I'm getting ambitious about mescaline once again  :laugh:

Nausea after ingestion isn't as much of a problem though. Some over the counter or prescription nausea medication, or some form of ginger, or a hit or two of MJ, or all of them... could easily overcome that. I did use a widemouth cup... but it wasn't like I had 1 gulp worth of extract. I made a pretty big dose from a pretty big cactus. It was about 3 cups of liquid. And I've never been all that good at chugging drinks, not even ones that taste good.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750800 - 10/03/05 08:25 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Its not incredibly difficult for the acid/base extract. Granted you'll have other alkolids present, so its not going to be pure mescaline, but you'll be able to figure out accurate dosing with the salts. I figure if done correctly, you can be looking at 60%-80% pure mescaline, and with some washing of the salts... maybe a little higher.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: RussianCelery]
    #4750815 - 10/03/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

that sounds like a good quality extract. Not pharmaceutical quality, but it isn't too far from it. I imagine a pure form such as that would be highly valuable? moreso than the cost of ordering the cactus? (I can only grow so many in my backyard before people start to complain, and ask uncomfortable questions).


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineThePredator
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750834 - 10/03/05 08:34 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Get that spray stuff that numbs your throat, boil off some of the water in it, then spray it on your tongue and throat (it actually helps).


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750849 - 10/03/05 08:38 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Oops, my mistake...please disregard earlier comments

*edited for content*


Edited by RussianCelery (10/03/05 08:49 PM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: RussianCelery]
    #4750895 - 10/03/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

let's not directly discuss selling it, as that encroaches upon the limits of the forum rules. Thank you for the info, but you might want to edit that out of your post.

I don't know many people who would value it so highly as that, but no doubt it would be perceived as noticeably more valuable than a tea of cactus or a live cutting. Avoiding the ingestion woes is pretty nice.

My local hardware store sells gallons of Xylene for about $14. I don't have a seperatory funnel, sadly, but I have eyedroppers with glass tubing which would work. my only concern is pH testing paper... I'm not sure where to get that without needing a credit card to buy it online. I've not found a science supplier that accepted money orders or checks. Citric acid I could look for at the supermarket, as the "sour salts" described on erowid. or I could buy some muratic acid and just be very careful with it.

as for the post on the numbing medication. I used a topical gel which causes numbness. It was given by a doctor as a sore throat remedy. I used it liberally in my mouth. While it helped, I tasted the stuff nonetheless.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


Edited by Konnrade (10/03/05 08:49 PM)


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750915 - 10/03/05 08:53 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

In the hardware usually their is a concrete stripper or something along the lines of that, that is pure HCL well 97.2% or something along the lines of that. With the remander being good ol' H20.

Check petshops for pH testing strips in the fish department.

ALSO... don't forget Ascorbic(sp?) Acid... e.g. Vitamin C!


Edited by RussianCelery (10/03/05 08:54 PM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: RussianCelery]
    #4750929 - 10/03/05 08:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

pure hydrochloric acid is VERY dangerous... take this from a chem major. It takes laboratory-grade accuracy in pH measurement to even think of using it in reactions where the yield is intended for consumption. If I bought muratic acid (HCl) I would buy it in a high concentration but would carefully make it very dilute with distilled water.

As it is citric acid is far safer for consumption and I beleive the powder should be available at a well stocked supermarket. If not I can check online.

Thanks for the info on pH testing strips though, saved me a lot of hassle.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineRussianCelery
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4750935 - 10/03/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Well its not PURE it would be like 1M HCL nothing spectacular, but incredibly fast at changing the pH levels...


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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4751293 - 10/03/05 10:02 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Try this extraction tek. It's the simplest full extraction that I've found. It doesn't require a seperatory funnel and it's written in simple step-by-step recipe style wording.

Things you'll need:
1.at least 2 glass or HDPE(should show a triangular recycle symbol with a 2 inside of it somewhere on the bottom) plastic jugs or jars. HDPE is preferred because strong lye solutions will etch glass and cause it to break eventually. I know first hand.

2. RedDevil brand lye

3. Muriatic acid (HCL or hydrochloric acid)

4. Acetone

5. Xylene

6. turkey baster

7. a glass or stainless steel funnel

8. cotton balls

all easy to get items (use NO aluminum)

You should not use any type of open flame at any point during this extraction.
Use adequate ventilation at all times.

Preparing your cactus
You'll want to begin with dry powdered cactus if you can. You can dry slices of cactus in the oven with low heat and then use a coffee grinder to powderize it.

Extracting
Prepare a solution of lye water by slowly mixing together 1 TBS of lye for every pint of cold water that you think you'll need to completely cover you dry cactus. This will produce a little heat so don't be alarmed. Just swirl it around slowly as you add the lye a little at a time. This is what I will refer to as base or basic water.

Next add you dry cactus powder. Mix the contents thoroughly to ensure that you expose all of the powder to the basic water.

Now add about a pint or so of xylene to the mix. You want enough of a layer to be able to draw off the xylene with the turkey baster later. Shake it all up and let it sit for an hour. If you can see that the xylene layer is separating back out, fine, if not, add a little more pre-made basic water and check again. Now shake it back up and put it away for 24 hours (every second of it).

24 hours later, you want to draw off the xylene so now you need to use the turkey baster to suck it up and put it in a new jar(a mason jar works fine). You don't want any of the water from beneath the xylene to come with it.

Salting
Now you want to mix your acid water in order to dilute it to the proper strength you want. Be very careful not to breath the vapors that come out of the bottle when you open it. HCL comes very strong and it will burn you.

You want to add approximately 4-8 drops of HCL acid to 1 cup of water.
Slowly add this acid water to the xylene while gently swirling the liquids around in the jar. Add it all. Put the lid on the jar and shake it all up. Wait a few minutes and shake again.

Once it has returned completely to a separated state loosen the lid on the jar and place it in the freezer. You want the bottom layer(the acid water) to now freeze solid. The xylene will not freeze. Once the water is frozen, work quickly and pour the xylene back into the extraction bottle.

With the water still frozen solid, pour in a little warm water and swirl around and discard quickly. This helps get rid of a little more residual xylene. The rest will evaporate later.

Repeat the extraction and salting steps 4 to 6 times to get all of the goodies. You can reuse the xylene over and over again.

Evaporating
Now thaw out the water and put it in you evaporation dish. A large flat bottomed pyrex dish works best. Using heat(heating pad beneath the dish) or not fan dry it to evaporate the water from the dish. This may take some time depending on how much water you used.

Once all of this is dry you will see a crystalline residue left on the dish. Scrape it off with a razor blade. It will be a brownish powder. It can be used as is but the next procedure is simple if you've got this far.

Cleaning
Put a cotton ball in the spout end of your funnel so that it can filter.

Mix some acetone with your extracted alkaloids and pour it into the funnel with a clean dry jar to catch the liquids. You will notice some color draining through with the acetone. Wash like this with fresh acetone until little to no more color is draining through. Put the funnel somewhere to dry.

Once all acetone smell is gone from the funnel and it's contents you need to pour some hot water into it with it positioned over the evaporation dish. The hot water will dissolve the crystals and allow them to flow through the cotton into the dish.

Evaporate as before. The resulting crystals will be considerably whiter and more pure. This is not only for aesthetics, but also it makes for more accurate dosing.

You can put this powder in capsule to facilitate simple dosing with pre-measured amounts in each capsule. Look to www.erowid.com for dosing guidelines.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #4751708 - 10/03/05 11:39 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

that sounds not dissimilar to the plan I was thinking of using from erowid. However that one is in a far more condensed form so it would be a lot easier to follow it. It's worded more like a lab procedure sheet than a textbook explanation.

It feels way too simple... which makes me nervous.

However, I have acetone and was planning on buying some xylene, pH papers, and citric acid powder (easily substituted in place of HCl and exponentially safer for consumption).

I don't like how that tek fails to warn against the xylene dissolving plastics. As far as I know xylene is a petroleum solvent and would dissolve many forms of plastic. Am I right? Would this not potentially contaminate the yield? Or would the acetone washing rinse away any potential contamination?


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4751817 - 10/04/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

You certainly need to be careful what plastic you use. Test it out by letting it hold a decent amount of xylene for a day.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Avoiding mescaline nausea? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #4752377 - 10/04/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

ugh... well from memory, a petroleum solvent should dissolve: Polystyrene, polyurethane, and polyethylene. But that's just from memory, and well... my memory is about as reliable as a Packard Bell computer (gee, wonder why you don't see any pac bell computers nowadays  :tongue2:).

I'll no doubt test everything with both acetone and xylene. doing it for a whole day is a bit overkill I'd say. An hour or two should be able to display the safety of the plastic/petroleum combination.

If I can get my hands on enough pachanoi (my cacti are all regrowing from the harvest, they'll need a year at least before they're big enough) I can tinker around with the extraction. For me at least it's very simple, no worse than a high school chemistry lab.

Hopefully I can learn a thing or two and put up a good, reliable tek, written in the form of a labarotory procedures paper, yet using only household items. That should be useful to a lot of folks who are trying to get started with this sort of thing  :smile:


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