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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs
    #4745033 - 10/02/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The West has embraced a radical pro-Iranian elite and created a festering wound with the Sunnis

Regardless of the result of the Iraqi people's vote on the constitution on 15 October, the reality is that it is a failed document, reflective of a failed process. A rejection would, in fact, represent a liberating moment for the decision-makers in Washington and London, enabling them to chart a new course free from the past.

Many observers, including some senior US and British military officers, concede that the presence of American and British troops is having a negative effect on Iraq's domestic situation, and the sooner they are withdrawn, the better. The issue is how to manage such a withdrawal without setting off a chain of events leading to even more chaos. Many feel that the adoption of the draft constitution represents such a circumstance, but this is a false hope. There are forces at play in Iraq that cannot be ignored and which, if the draft constitution passes, will be outside the control of either the US or Britain.

First and foremost is the radical, pro-Iranian elite governing Iraq today. Iraq's President, Jalal Talabani, is decidedly pro-Iranian, having fought on the side of Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. Ibrahim al-Jafaari, the Prime Minister, is the leader of the Dawa Party, which was based in Iran and had a strong tendency to embrace the tactics and tools of terror. Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, one of the strongest behind-the-scenes players, heads the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), as well as its military arm, the Badr Brigade, all organised, equipped, paid for and directed by Iran. This clique, mostly radical Islamic in nature, does not represent the will of the Iraqi people, even of the Shia, but rather the vision of its masters in Tehran. A positive vote for the draft constitution will only empower it, a result that will guarantee civil war.

There is a viable exit strategy: the gradual withdrawal of US and British troops, with a policy to re-enfranchise the Sunni population, strengthen the hand of the Kurds and Shia outside the sphere of influence exerted by Iran, and disenfranchise the pro-Iran elite. There will, of course, need to be a guiding hand, which cannot be American or British. The European Union, Arab League and United Nations could all play a role in this, an effort each would support if only the US and Britain would let them. To date, these two nations, and more so the United States, have been loath to allow other parties to trespass on issues pertaining to Iraq. Only these countries, so the thinking went in Washington and London, had earned the right - through sacrifice, in removing Saddam and dealing with the occupation - to be involved.

Now that this sacrifice is no longer deemed a price worth paying, perhaps the time has come for other nations to become involved in Iraq's future.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article316518.ece


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4745606 - 10/02/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4745615 - 10/02/05 05:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

^^^^Can anyone make sense of this guy's posts? Just curious.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Silversoul]
    #4745629 - 10/02/05 05:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Don't even try, it won't happen.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4756764 - 10/05/05 12:45 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

An opposing viewpoint to that expressed by the Independent op-ed article with many supporting links can be found here --

http://www.publiuspundit.com/?p=1714

Well worth the read for those interested in the Iraq constitution and the way Iraqis perceive it.

I'm VERY interested in seeing how the voting goes on this.




Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Phred]
    #4758640 - 10/05/05 01:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Are the Sunni's going to even bother voting?


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4759325 - 10/05/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

All indications are that they will. Certainly a much higher percentage of them will than voted in the January elections.

I have no doubt there will be breakdowns available post-referendum.




Phred


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Phred]
    #4759717 - 10/05/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The non-muslims and their moderate muslim allies will continue killing fanatic muslims. This is natural law. Its impossible to change. Its written in the Quran. The non-muslims will win, of course. Its survival of the fittest.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Phred]
    #4761880 - 10/06/05 02:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

All indications are that they will

Not quite.

Sunni Arabs have reacted angrily to a decision by Iraq's Shia-dominated parliament making it harder to reject the new constitution in 12 days' time.

The two-thirds majority needed in three provinces to defeat the constitution will now be counted from all registered - as opposed to actual - voters.

Many registered voters may not show up because of violence, it is argued.

Saleh al-Mutlaq, of the Sunni group Iraqi National Dialogue, called the change a "clear forgery".

"They want this constitution to pass despite the will of the people," he added.

BBC Baghdad correspondent Caroline Hawley says violence, intimidation and US military offensives could keep many Sunnis away from polling centres.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4306094.stm


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4762019 - 10/06/05 02:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

George Carlin says that we should give Iraq our constitution, because it was written by really smart guys, it served us well for 200 years, and we're not using it anymore...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4763223 - 10/06/05 11:59 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That article is out of date. I hope the BBC covered as faithfully the fact that this change has been reversed by the Iraqi parliament. I could have sworn they did that on Monday, but it may have been on Tuesday. At any rate, the last minute change HAS been reversed. What will count is percentage of votes cast, not percentage of registered voters.



Phred


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Phred]
    #4763400 - 10/06/05 12:46 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That article is out of date

The violence, intimidation and US offensives part isn't.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4763483 - 10/06/05 01:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Alex will you be happy if the constitution is passed?

or saddened......


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4763521 - 10/06/05 01:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No, I'll be "happy" when Iraq is peaceful.

I'm tired of phoney "events" being pushed as being meaningful that in reality have little relevance on the situation in Iraq. The capture of Saddam, the "handover of power" to the iraqi government, the crushing of Falluja..will we simply be adding "the passing of the constitution" to this long, miserable list?


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: Alex213]
    #4763795 - 10/06/05 02:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

No, I'll be "happy" when Iraq is peaceful.




As peaceful as it was when the wood chippers and rape rooms were still doing business, perhaps?

You've made it clear you would prefer seeing Hussein and his Ba'athist minions still in power in Iraq. I presume you'd also prefer the current leadership of Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan, Egypt, Iran and Syria to be left unmolested by the US and the UK?





Phred


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Constitution is the last thing Iraq needs [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4763845 - 10/06/05 02:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

haahahaha...that's a good bit.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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