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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
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Drama and Enlightened States
    #4737392 - 09/30/05 05:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In I :heart: Huckabees, a professional philosopher makes the observation that "enlightenment" is something we experience in brief flashes, after which we once again descend into the human drama.

I have observed this again and again in my life, and usually see the descent as a negative event, some sort of failure of spirituality, and try to work harder on my spiritual tek.

But considering that the cycle is inevitable, and even necessary to this wild experience of human life, I begin to feel that there is no need to work harder.  Gentleness and acceptance is the key.  Much love for self and others.  Much appreciation for the process.

:heart:


Edited by Veritas (10/03/05 02:55 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737427 - 09/30/05 05:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That seem to make sense from my experience. :foreheadslap:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Icelander]
    #4737442 - 09/30/05 05:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Opening up and letting it happen instead of constantly forging forward toward.....?


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Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737445 - 09/30/05 05:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I know what you mean. I've had some intense trips where afterwards I swore I would stay in that enlightened state for the rest of my life, but inevitably ended up falling back into the rut of everyday existence. I believe in Zen Buddhism, they refer to this temporary enlightenment as "satori." With practice and discipline, one can learn to stay in this mindstate, but it takes effort. I am currently getting into meditation, so as to get into such a mindstate more frequently, and carry it out throughout my day.


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737460 - 09/30/05 05:21 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

But what if there is benefit to the "rut"? What if it is not a rut but a well of experience?

If we can take our bucketful of human drama, drink it as best we're able, and bring that experience to our "enlightened" moments, wouldn't that be more balanced and respectful of what reality contains?

Wouldn't it be less neurotic to accept it all, rather than striving for a particular piece of the pie?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737470 - 09/30/05 05:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
But what if there is benefit to the "rut"? What if it is not a rut but a well of experience?

If we can take our bucketful of human drama, drink it as best we're able, and bring that experience to our "enlightened" moments, wouldn't that be more balanced and respectful of what reality contains?

Wouldn't it be less neurotic to accept it all, rather than striving for a particular piece of the pie?



For me, this "rut" involves feeling hostile towards certain people, worrying about what other people think, getting stressed over tedious bullshit, etc. I have found no benefit to any of this, and find that I handle life much better when in a more "enlightened" state of mind. This is why meditation has been extremely helpful for me.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737475 - 09/30/05 05:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Don't get me wrong: I am not dissing meditation.

What I am questioning is the way most of us judge being "in the rut." Maybe there is not a benefit to the time you spend there, but there might be in what you learn from that time.

It seems like I make things so much more negative, and really increase the amount of time spent in "drama," when I am judging and rejecting the fact that I am failing to be enlightened.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737483 - 09/30/05 05:32 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
What I am questioning is the way most of us judge being "in the rut." Maybe there is not a benefit to the time you spend there, but there might be in what you learn from that time.



Certainly you can learn from it. Most negative experiences are learning opportunities. Doesn't mean it's something to admired or sought after.


--------------------


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737495 - 09/30/05 05:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Just accepted instead of denied.


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737496 - 09/30/05 05:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

LOL I don't think we NEED to seek it out, it comes around whether we like it or not. :grin:

Do you think it is beneficial/necessary to reject it?

Do we go further when we deny reality, or when we accept it? (even if we don't approve of it. :wink:)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737522 - 09/30/05 05:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

There is no denying "the rut." It happens. But the goal should be to prevent ourselves from going there. But we also should not be upset when we do. Don't focus on the negative("Dammit, I did it again'), but rather on the positive("I will try harder to maintain a higher state of awareness").


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737555 - 09/30/05 05:56 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What if, instead, we thought "Oh, here I am again, in the rut. Guess I'll relax and check out the scenery while I'm here. Hm, interesting, I'm worried and irritable. Yuck, I'm dreading going to work. Oh, man, I'm really scared about ______."

When we experience those blissful moments of satori, there would be no need to pat ourselves on the back for it, or think that it was something special, or cling to it. We would accept that it was a passing state, enjoy the scenery there, too, and release it when it was time for immersion in the drama again.

IMO this is the least neurotic response to the inevitable.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737572 - 09/30/05 06:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

To take such a relaxed attitude would be to get out of the rut, no?


--------------------


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Silversoul]
    #4737581 - 09/30/05 06:04 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

IMO our essential self is always out of the rut.  The "observer" is the commentator I am referring to.  To allow the observer to detach from our egoic self (still wallowing in the rut) and comment neutrally instead of judgmentally does not "rescue" us from the rut, but does not push our face into the mud, either. :grin:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4737794 - 09/30/05 07:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

it ain't easy being an existential detective


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OfflineGrowingVines
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4739269 - 10/01/05 01:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Wisdom and enlightenment comes with the choices we've made and lived through those experiences and choices.


--------------------
Peace out my brothers, for everyone has a bit of insanity in them


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OfflineBrugman
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4739437 - 10/01/05 01:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Great film..
"Albert, have you ever transcended time and space?"
"Yes. No. Time, not space. No, I have no idea what you're talking about"

Love it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Brugman]
    #4740546 - 10/01/05 12:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The movie is really worth a look. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Icelander]
    #4740559 - 10/01/05 12:30 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I too was entertained, delighted, and enlightened by it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: I :heart: Huckabees [Re: Veritas]
    #4748801 - 10/03/05 12:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

reminds me of a saying that went along the lines of "nirvana is but only a few of a bazillionjillion mind moments in any given second.....

i learned about I  :heart: Huckabees through a moview review, and remember the several handful of reviews compared it to Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless mind as if measuring dicks, prefering ESoTM.... such a nasty profession...

Hate to admit it but I did take a moderate amount of pleasure in observing that some of the audience was totally put off by the movie - we other 10% were in hysteria.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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