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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Hey you, gotta question!
    #4736811 - 09/30/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It would be far easier to be sympathetic if a single spokesperson for the media-amplified anti-war movement laid out a convincing model of what would happen in Iraq or Afghanistan if our troops just came home.

Please. Tell me: What becomes of Iraq if we just pull out? Does Atlantis rise from the Tigris to inaugurate the Age of Aquarius in the Middle East? Would grateful terrorists teach us folk dances? Or might the terrorists and insurgents be emboldened, resulting in a bloody civil war, acts of genocide and far worse abuses of human rights than the shabby nonsense at Abu Ghraib?

I'm ready to listen. Convince me. Was Saddam's rule better? Where were you when he was gassing the Kurds and butchering the Shia? Are the fates of foreign peoples only important when our troops can be blamed?

And how about Afghanistan? Where was dreary, old Joan Baez when the Taliban banned Afghan folk music, jailing and torturing musicians? Where were the advocates who believe that every fourth-grade reading list should begin with "Frodo Has 13 Mommies" when girls were forbidden education of any kind? Were Afghans better off under the Taliban?

Answer me, please.
The reason no protester has described what would follow a withdrawal of our troops is that no one on the left can face the answers.

Who needs responsibility, anyway? The protesters are cocooned in a society that minimizes consequences. If anything goes wrong, it isn't their fault. The answer is never personal responsibility, but joining a support group.

EDIT: I LOVE THIS PARAGRAPH

The protesters get their wish, our troops leave and a bloodbath erupts, drawing in Turkey, Syria and Iran? Just reach for a glass of sauvignon blanc and speed-dial a like-minded pal for reassurance. Genocide isn't your fault, girlfriend. You did what you felt was right, don't be so hard on yourself.


LOL

This is from an article in the NY-post by Ralph Peters called "Protest Therapy" You may have to register to see it.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4736869 - 09/30/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Please. Tell me: What becomes of Iraq if we just pull out?

Who knows? That's the trouble with launching catastrophic invasions based on nothing more than hype and propaganda. You create an almighty clusterfuck.

Who'se to say anything better will happen if we stay there for another 10 years before pulling out?

Convince me. Was Saddam's rule better?

Cleverly ignoring the fact that the reason given for invading Iraq was WMD...

Was Saddam better than the the utter chaos and likely civil war Iraq has to come? It's too close to call. Certainly far more Iraqis have died in the last 2 years than would have died if we'd left Saddam in power.

Where were you when he was gassing the Kurds

I was in school. Rumsfield was shaking his hand, Bush snr was loaning him billions.

Who needs responsibility, anyway?

Is this fuckin eedjit trying to blame the problems in Iraq on the people who said don't invade?  :grin:


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: Alex213]
    #4736914 - 09/30/05 03:16 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Don't lose the scope of the article!

We all know that the war was an unjustfiable, illegal, immoral, horrible, nazish, hitlerish, imperialistic, hate-filled, ugly, and downright mean act. That is established!

Forget that past, we already know its horribleness!

Time to live in the PRESENT.

Do the protesters have any desire for peace if it doesn't come from peace? The answer as they have shown is "no". If war or violence brings about stability or peace, they do not care for it, and downright HATE IT.

Their entire facade of humanism is a sham. They have shown that they are either incredible dumb, or only accept their utopian bliss if its done, their way.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4736948 - 09/30/05 03:22 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Do the protesters have any desire for peace if it doesn't come from peace?

There's peace in Iraq????


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: Alex213]
    #4736961 - 09/30/05 03:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Will there be peace if we leave Iraq?

Just answer the question. Forget Iraq. We are really getting down to the twisted mentality of the protesters.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4736978 - 09/30/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Will there be peace in Iraq if we stay for another 10 years and then leave?


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: Alex213]
    #4736989 - 09/30/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Will the protesters be satisified if Iraq breaks out into a bloody, genocidal civil war?


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Male

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,746
Loc: Classified
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4736995 - 09/30/05 03:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Time to live in the PRESENT.



I agree. And in the present, we should impeach Bush for getting the country into this conflict to begin with and keep the troops there until the country is somewhat stabilized. Pulling out of Iraq immediately would be ignorant and illogical.


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: bukkake]
    #4737818 - 09/30/05 07:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

We can't impeach Bush. Only Congress can do that.


http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/Trnd_Ind_IRQ_Imps_73-02.pdf

Top three suppliers of arms to Saddam Hussein, 1973 - 2002

USSR: 57%
* France: 13%
* China: 12%

Then, in order of importance:

* Czechoslovakia: 7%
* Poland: 4%
* Brazil: 2%
* Egypt: 1%
* Romania: 1%
* Denmark: 1%
* Libya: 1%

USA's sales -- 1 percent. None provided before or after the Iraq-Iran war.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: Alex213]
    #4737829 - 09/30/05 07:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
Who knows? That's the trouble with launching catastrophic invasions based on nothing more than hype and propaganda. You create an almighty clusterfuck.




So the problem with the invasion was that it was unplanned and had no predictable positive outcome? Then why do that again by abandoning our positions over there? Do you think that anything possibly GOOD will come out of it?
Quote:


Cleverly ignoring the fact that the reason given for invading Iraq was WMD...




The reasons included his frequent violations of UN sanctions. Clearly the UN wouldnt' do anything about it, as Little Kofi was making some nice money off exploiting the Iraqi people
Quote:


Was Saddam better than the the utter chaos and likely civil war Iraq has to come? It's too close to call. Certainly far more Iraqis have died in the last 2 years than would have died if we'd left Saddam in power.




Can you please demonstrate how you'd prove that?


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4737831 - 09/30/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes. I think a protracted and bloody civil war in Iraq would suit me quite nicely, when compared with the present situation.

The Iraqis don't want us there, and have some unresolved issues to sort out amongst themselves.


Edit: as far as a civil war in Iraq expanding to draw the entire Middle East into chaos, I think that's a worst case scenario with no more credibility than the best-case scenario of the elected government of Iraq maintaining order.


Edited by phi1618 (09/30/05 07:17 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,174
Last seen: 9 months, 29 days
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4738664 - 09/30/05 10:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Why would Turkey fight? That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Not only are they pretty much a completely secular gov't, but they want into the EU. They won't get into the EU fighting wars.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4739325 - 10/01/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The impending civil war is completely about oil. The sunnis don't want federalism because they think that they will get the wasteland while the shiites get the oil-rich land...Meanwhile the rest of the clueless world thinks the US wants the oil when all the US wants is a friendly oil-rich government, willing to sell their resources for mutual benefit of their people just like every other oil-rich government.

Maybe the US should just pull out and let these people slaughter each other until they are ready to be a part of the civilized world community. The Iraqi people could have such a great, prosperous country if not for the hatred and factionalism.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Hey you, gotta question! [Re: looner2]
    #4739566 - 10/01/05 02:33 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yet another work of genius, displaying this psyche for the whole world to see.


Bear witness...


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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