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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
The first step towards Fascism...
    #4734939 - 09/30/05 03:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

whether it be a country or a small backwater organization, is to control the airwaves and suppress any contrary ideas. One can always identify those that claim to speak the truth and yet stifle opposing ideas or philosophies. They shiver in the corner and hope no one discovers how terrified they are.

The ONLY reasons for such cowardly tactics are control and fear.

The real TRUTH can stand up to ANY scrutiny, and certainly free discussion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4734954 - 09/30/05 04:00 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The first steps always include disarming the people. Be it of information, means to fight back, a voice, the less the people have the better off the tyrannical government is.

The best situation for a tyrannical government is to take away the peoples rights slowly while increasing their sense of security.

"These programs are subversive and dangerous! With them gone, we'll be safer".

"Only whack-os and criminals would need those types of guns. Confiscation and strict regulation makes everyone safer. The government is supposed to out-gun the citizenry."

"If someone is doing something wrong, does it really matter if the search was legal? Constitutional? We got a bad guy off the streets."




--------------------


Edited by Warrior14 (09/30/05 04:03 AM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4735158 - 09/30/05 05:04 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

whether it be a country or a small backwater organization

It's not fascism unless they have lots of oil and their dictator threatens to deny it to the US.  :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery Arcade Champion: BMX Tricks
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Diploid]
    #4735176 - 09/30/05 05:09 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

"Vote or no vote, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders." -Hermann Goring (cant find umlauts)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4735221 - 09/30/05 05:34 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

umlauts

I had one for breakfast this morning.  :sun:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineJ4S0N
human
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 284
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4735275 - 09/30/05 06:20 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

We must give away our freedoms so that we can secure our freedoms.. we live in the age of double think. Im just amazed at how many people so willinging go along with it. It wasn't that long ago really that the world witnessed the Nazi disaster, why do people forget so quick?


--------------------
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4735276 - 09/30/05 06:22 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So could one assume that the first step to RESISTING facism is to listen to and promote alternative media? To promote gun ownership and education about our rights?


--------------------


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 User Gallery Arcade Champion: BMX Tricks
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4735301 - 09/30/05 06:50 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Alternative media? what other media sources are there other than Fox news? /sarcasm


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4735409 - 09/30/05 08:53 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

first of all..the thread godwins itself in the title...second of all..pushing godwin aside..its a bit late to be talking about the first steps...third of all..i doubt its as simple as blaming the media either ..there are compelling economic reasons for voters to surrender their freedoms...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinegregorio
Stranger

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,822
Loc: NapTown
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: J4S0N]
    #4735818 - 09/30/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

J4S0N said:
We must give away our freedoms so that we can secure our freedoms.. we live in the age of double think. 




Yep, it reminds me right after the London bombings a while back and the NYC transit system communiters were being subjected to searches in violation of the 4'th Ammendment.

One of the officials defending that policy stated that, " We must be willing give up our liberties so that we can remain free."  :shocked:

I did not see or hear one media talking head , left or right, attempt to take this official at task for what he stated.

Double think---Double Speak.. It seems to be alive and well.


Edited by gregorio (09/30/05 11:29 AM)


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4735850 - 09/30/05 11:33 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Nothing gets the point across quite like a hollow point.



--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Swami]
    #4736701 - 09/30/05 02:39 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The real TRUTH can stand up to ANY scrutiny, and certainly free discussion.




I'm really really excited to hear "The real TRUTH"!

I'm all ears...


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: looner2]
    #4747506 - 10/03/05 01:16 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Are those cauliflower ears? Swami was not referring to "The Real Truth" but was simply saying that real truth can stand up to any scrutiny. As an example we can look at the claims of Iraqi WMDs, claims which can't stand up to any scrutiny. Any semblance of believability of these claims is entirely within the mind of the war promoters and cannot be objectively verified.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4748423 - 10/03/05 09:52 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Are those cauliflower ears?




Yes, from my wrestling years.

Quote:

Prosgeopax said:
Swami was not referring to "The Real Truth" but was simply saying that real truth can stand up to any scrutiny.




This is a politics forum. Real truth is elusive and a best guess is sometimes the most we can hope for.

Go to S+P with swami and debunk homeopathy for a good "real truth" experience and remember to pat eachother on the back.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4748523 - 10/03/05 10:47 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

As an example we can look at the claims of Iraqi WMDs, claims which can't stand up to any scrutiny.




What do you think happened to them? There has never been any evidence they were all destroyed, there has only been the unsupported claim of Hussein's Ba'athist regime that they were destroyed. And clearly they weren't all destroyed, as around three dozen of the unaccounted-for chemical artillery shells have been discovered since March of 2003. We can make the assumption that those were the very last ones still left in existence, I suppose, though why we should make that assumption is unclear to me.

Quote:

Any semblance of believability of these claims is entirely within the mind of the war promoters and cannot be objectively verified.




This sentence applies perfectly to those willing to accept the objectively unverifiable claim of Hussein that he had destroyed all the existing stocks and dismantled his WMD programs. All we can say with certainty is that no significant stocks have been found. That's not the same as saying with certainty that all significant stocks have been destroyed.



Phred


--------------------


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Phred]
    #4748592 - 10/03/05 11:12 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The burden of proof of WMDs is upon those making the claim. Should I have made the claim that there were invisible gnomes hiding in the Dominican countryside and then since I can't find them, claim that they have migrated somewhere else in my defense and still seem credible to the rational mind? No.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4748646 - 10/03/05 11:35 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The burden of proof was always on Hussein to prove he had destroyed them. He was known to have X quantity, he admitted to having X quantity. Actually, he originally admitted to having quite a bit less than X quantity, but the first UN inspection team kept turning up more here and there. Hussein's response was always "Oh, yeah... forgot about that lot. But don't worry, NOW you've got a list of all of it." Then the inspectors would find some more, and he'd say, "Oops. Forgot about that bunch. But I swear there's no more." Etc.

My point is that no one involved in the original inspections -- not even Scott Ritter -- was willing to say the first inspectors had verified the destruction of more than 90 to 95% of Iraq's known and admitted stocks. That leaves an awful lot of chem/bio stuff unaccounted for at the time the first inspection team bailed in 1998.

What happened to it?

Hussein and his minions claim they destroyed it. I suppose there are some who felt comfortable taking them at their word. But to paint those unwilling to take the Ba'athists at their word as deceitful is ridiculous.




Phred


--------------------


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Phred]
    #4748754 - 10/03/05 12:16 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

There has never been any evidence they were all destroyed, there has only been the unsupported claim of Hussein's Ba'athist regime that they were destroyed.

I believe there was a high profile defector who told the US in 1995 that the chemical and bio weapons had been destroyed in 1991.

And clearly they weren't all destroyed, as around three dozen of the unaccounted-for chemical artillery shells have been discovered since March of 2003.

Were these actually in a position to be used? Or are these the unexploded ones they found laying in the desert from artillery tests 20 years ago?

We can make the assumption that those were the very last ones still left in existence, I suppose, though why we should make that assumption is unclear to me.


Because we have occupied the country for 2 years, interviewed every scientist etc and come up with nothing?

This sentence applies perfectly to those willing to accept the objectively unverifiable claim of Hussein that he had destroyed all the existing stocks and dismantled his WMD programs

Not unless Saddam was making the WMD all alone in his bedroom.

Scientists would be needed to make them. Many other people would need to be involved. None of these scientists or anyone else has produced any evidence to support the claims of WMD.

All we can say with certainty is that no significant stocks have been found. That's not the same as saying with certainty that all significant stocks have been destroyed.


So what would it take for you to finally believe Saddam didn't have WMD? What evidence are you looking for?

Looking at this from another angle, why do you even believe Saddam had WMD in 2003?


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Phred]
    #4748772 - 10/03/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

That leaves an awful lot of chem/bio stuff unaccounted for at the time the first inspection team bailed in 1998.


You're confusing "unaccounted for" with "exists".

I can't account for 90% of the socks I have lost over the course of my life but that doesn't mean I still have them.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: The first step towards Fascism... [Re: Phred]
    #4748789 - 10/03/05 12:30 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
But to paint those unwilling to take the Ba'athists at their word as deceitful is ridiculous.



Sorry, but there is no logic to the concept that since Ba'athists lie, neocons don't lie. Furthermore, the burden of proof of those who claimed WMDs as the reason to destroy the lives of thousands of Americans, untold numbers of Iraqis, send a country into anarchy and burden the U.S. taxpayers with hundreds of billions of dollars of additional expense is upon those making the assertion.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


Edited by Prosgeopax (10/03/05 12:33 PM)


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