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Invisiblepsyka
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Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really?
    #4732376 - 09/29/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I dont think so.

I believe there is no such thing as intelligence, but that you are merely an axis of observation. Knowledge, and sound reasoning are traits that can be excercised and learned and are what we call intelligence. And so everyone has the same potential "intelligence." The flaw is our "equipment" (brain, eyes, lack of limbs, etc...) is not the same.

The reason I bring this up, is that what we call "intelligence" is a natural inherent trait to all matter. Which is why we can not easily identify the simplest form of life; when we do, 10 years later we find something else that pushes the envelope further. And so this leaves me to believe intelligence is a completely natural emerging phenomena based on the complexity of the organism.

Which is why, I am lead to believe atoms are alive... just negligibly.

What do you think? What is "awareness" is emergent of?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4732571 - 09/29/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

3) feedback
2) retention and recall
1) life


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4732581 - 09/29/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Can you elaborate a bit more? I think I know where you're going with it. But, my interpretation could be false.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Offlinepsilocyb0rg
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4733044 - 09/29/05 08:20 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Intelligence is all a matter of reference. We know a lot, but a lot compared to what? A bunny? It's like saying an inch is small, but it's big compared to a millimeter.


--------------------

Join the Mushroom Army at
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OfflineGomp
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4733144 - 09/29/05 08:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"intelligence trying to be aware"
-Unknown :P


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OfflineTheGus
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: Gomp]
    #4733349 - 09/29/05 09:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

transcending the physical, raising your energy, learning through other dimensions...


waking up from this dream...


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4734140 - 09/30/05 12:32 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

And so everyone has the same potential "intelligence."




The problem with that, is that brains seem to have a huge effect on what you call intelligence.

A)The ability to learn is affected by brain disorders like down syndrome, or other damage like fetal alcohol syndrome.

B)Damage to the brain can impair reasoning abilities.

If we all have equal potential somewhere separate from the brain, how come these things have an effect?

Your brain does a bazillion different things.

Learning a task isn't one skill, it's many working together. There are some people who can learn to play musical instruments incredibly easily, quickly learning to recognize tones and be able to create amazing compositions on the fly, yet fumble with words and often come across as simple and unthoughtful.

There are other people who can work out complex mathimatical formulas in their mind, easily visualize intricate spatial models and translate them into equations, yet have an intense difficulty understanding and reading social cues and the emotions of others.

Some people might be able to explain detailed situations in clear, concise language, yet can't work out even simple math.

So, intelligence is lots of things.

Quote:


The reason I bring this up, is that what we call "intelligence" is a natural inherent trait to all matter. Which is why we can not easily identify the simplest form of life; when we do, 10 years later we find something else that pushes the envelope further.




I don't follow your logic here.

You're basically saying:

We often find new forms of life we haven't found before, therefore we can assume that these forms of life never existed before, and since something never existed before, that means it has intelligence.

Huh?

First of all, finding new forms of life doesn't mean they didn't exist before. When we found out about viruses, they had existed for ages. All the things that viruses cause have been around for a damn long time... and the things that push the envelope, like prions and whatnot have too.

How does anything about that prove that everything has intelligence? You define intelligence as the ability to learn to reason and know, right?

So in order to prove that everything has intelligence, you'd need to somehow demonstrate that everything can learn to reason and to know. Right?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: Phluck]
    #4735380 - 09/30/05 08:29 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No. You see I dont believe in intelligence at all. Reasoning and knowing are human conditions; more like equipment some utlize and some do not.

I am saying you are a bacterium equipped extra sensory machinery. I'm saying "intelligence" can be defined as awareness trying to understand itself, and that all things inherit this; that all things are essentially aware.

What triggered the move from simplistic non-living protein, to an alive and forever exploring life form?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineFoley
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4740375 - 10/01/05 10:48 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Starting an argument with the word exist in the first sentence is always bad. Definition of "existance" for something especially which is not matter in itself but an adjective effectively leaves huge vacancy for opinion based arguments. "intelligence" does exist regardless of how it's interpreted by anyone, it is a description of someone who is as far as we know : having the capacity for thought and reason especially to a high degree; "is there intelligent life in the universe?"; "an intelligent question" .


--------------------
Foley


There were hard times ahead for the people of planet Ventura,
Staring into the networks of space and time,
Their eyes were open,
But still, they were blind,
I wandered through the weird and lurid landscape of another planet

- Pendulum, Another Planet


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: Foley]
    #4740474 - 10/01/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Holy crap! You're right!


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Registered: 08/28/05
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Re: Does intelligence even exist? What is awareness, really? [Re: psyka]
    #4740784 - 10/01/05 02:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Emergent consciousness in highly complex lifeforms poses some problems, but is generally accepted in most circles. Plenty of reading can be found here.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"


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