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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Does anybody know about unions here?
    #4731851 - 09/29/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It seems as if the standard practise in American unions is for a person to do an apprenticeship for five years and they then take a "journeyman's" test. They can progress from journeyman to master and so on. The apprenticeship program offers a mix of classes and hands-on experience. Your hands-on experience is kind of like your job (you are paid for your hours).

Is it possible to take a journeyman's test or join a union if you didn't go through the apprenticeship program? For example, what if you went to a 16 month technical school to be an electrician and then once you graduate you try to join the International Electrical Worker's Union?


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4731861 - 09/29/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

it depends if they are in need of workers. If they have workers on the books it will be near impossible to get in. If they have full employment as long as you have a liscense you could get in.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4731871 - 09/29/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

just remember in order to get your journeyman's license you need to work 8000-10,000 hours of on the job experience so an apprenticeship is a lot better idea and you will be better trained than a tech school


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OfflineLethalX5
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4731915 - 09/29/05 03:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
just remember in order to get your journeyman's license you need to work 8000-10,000 hours of on the job experience so an apprenticeship is a lot better idea and you will be better trained than a tech school




after 6 months of trying i just got sponsored by a union for school. once i finished the school (2months i think) i am 100% guaranteed an apprenticeship with the union.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: LethalX5]
    #4731923 - 09/29/05 03:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

thats great union is the way to go.  Fair wages and benefits for a fair days work :thumbup:


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4731930 - 09/29/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

what union are you getting into?


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4732014 - 09/29/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Your best bet with a skill like that is to find a smaller company and work for them. No need to be in a union. I'd never let a union employee work for me. Thats because I think I'm a fair enough person that I wouldn't need it.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732031 - 09/29/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Warrior14 said:
Your best bet with a skill like that is to find a smaller company and work for them. No need to be in a union. I'd never let a union employee work for me. Thats because I think I'm a fair enough person that I wouldn't need it.




Yeah, I was wondering that. Would being a union member bar me from doing a lot of private type work? Would my union membership make people leery about me and unwilling to hire me? Would I be "segmented" from a lot of the jobs and the workers in my field?


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4732038 - 09/29/05 04:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, if you are in a union all of the wages you make are "taxed" by the union for your dues. It just depends on where you live really. Some people around here won't hire union companies. In other areas, I couldsee how they wouldn't hire anyone OTHER than union. Unions are why I shop at Sams club instead of CostCo.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732053 - 09/29/05 04:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It's great that you think you are a fair employer but the sad fact of the matter is non-union shops cheat their employees all the time. Part of what the union does here is bust shops that do it by not paying their employees what they are entitled to. It's pretty sad that there are still anti-union people like you around. The reason there is a middle class in this country is because of labor unions. The reason we have child labor laws, OSHA, and safety standards is because of unions.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732069 - 09/29/05 04:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Warrior14 said:
Yes, if you are in a union all of the wages you make are "taxed" by the union for your dues. It just depends on where you live really. Some people around here won't hire union companies. In other areas, I couldsee how they wouldn't hire anyone OTHER than union. Unions are why I shop at Sams club instead of CostCo.




Thast 100 percent anti-union bullshit that your pushing there. Unions do not "tax" you. You pay union dues to help run the union and to pay the people who are fighting and lobbying for you. If you are union you work for a union shop and you don't have to try to get work at a scab shop. Plus union members always make more than their non-union counterparts and the dues you pay are quite small


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4732076 - 09/29/05 04:11 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I don't agree with most of the union's politics (it seems to be very Leftist class-warfare type stuff being spewed over and over). However, I do like how you are paid for working right away as you do your on-the-job training. I also was wondering how the quality of the training of a union would stack up against the training that is offered by a 2 year technical school.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4732090 - 09/29/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The training is far superior than a tech school. As far as are politics go is we fight for our fellow brothers and we try to vote as a whole because it gives us the most power that way. Contrary to what the scabs will tell you you will not be forced into voting any particular way and no one will get in your face if you say you don't like some of their policies. The fact of the matter is the union does everything in it's power to make sure that its workers haved the highest standard of living possible. I made over $100,000 last year, have a pension, an annuity, and the best healthcare you can possibly have. I would like to see what my non-union counterparts make


Edited by lowdominion (09/29/05 04:15 PM)


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4732093 - 09/29/05 04:15 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
Thast 100 percent anti-union bullshit that your pushing there. Unions do not "tax" you.




It's a forced payment based on your income. Maybe that isn't a "tax", under the legal definition. I know that I use the word to refer to lots of stuff, like when I buy buds and the guy "taxes" me. At the end of the day, you have less money on your paycheck.
Quote:


You pay union dues to help run the union and to pay the people who are fighting and lobbying for you.




If I have to work at a place where I feel that I need to "fight" my employees, or that I feel I need to "fight" my employer, I'm just going somewhere else.
Quote:


If you are union you work for a union shop and you don't have to try to get work at a scab shop. Plus union members always make more than their non-union counterparts and the dues you pay are quite small



The dues that my Teamster friends that work at Costco pay aren't 'small', it's a few dollars per hour and it's usually almost as much as FICA takes. Why make 4$/hour more when you are paying 6$/hour for the person thats fighting your employer?


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732110 - 09/29/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

the union dues here equal .5% of you total pay a pittance this also pays for are union hall, our school and the people that teach there it's well worth it. You seem to have this naive idea that employers are looking out for their employees interest I applaud you if this is your case but my union constantly bust non-union shops for not paying overtime and not paying the standard rate(union level wages) on government jobs which they are obligated to do at least hear in Mass


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4732113 - 09/29/05 04:20 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
The training is far superior than a tech school.





The tech school I was looking at has a 16 month program and it starts on October 17. The union training program is five years long (damn...that's a long time) and it starts classes next September. That means if I want to do the union thing I would have to wait a whole fucking year. I don't know if I want to do that. And what if they didn't accept me anyway?

Quote:

lowdominion said:
Contrary to what the scabs will tell you you will not be forced into voting any particular way and no one will get in your face if you say you don't like some of their policies.





That's cool. For example, I noticed tons of pro-Social Security stuff all over the union web sites. I am against Social Security (I think it should be abolished). But, as long as people didn't bitch at me for having such political opinions I would be cool with being around people who thought differently than me.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4732118 - 09/29/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I don't believe in a "standard rate". The concept of "we are going to screw people by charging them this, now how DARE you try to undercut our prices!" is idiotic and socialist in nature.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4732128 - 09/29/05 04:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I myself have stood in the middle of a union meeting and voiced my displeasure at one of the local canidates the union was pushing for and everybody listened politely to what I had to say. The reason the appreticeship is so long is because the union insist on the hightest level of training for it's employees. Plus in Mass you need 10,000 hours of on the job training to get your journeyman's license which equals 5 years but at the end you will have the highest level of training in your field.


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732137 - 09/29/05 04:26 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Warrior14 said:
I don't believe in a "standard rate". The concept of "we are going to screw people by charging them this, now how DARE you try to undercut our prices!" is idiotic and socialist in nature.




No it's about making sure America does not turn into a third world shit hole with companies raking in huge prophets while their employees can't even afford decent health care.


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OfflineLethalX5
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Re: Does anybody know about unions here? [Re: lowdominion]
    #4732143 - 09/29/05 04:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowdominion said:
Quote:

Warrior14 said:
Yes, if you are in a union all of the wages you make are "taxed" by the union for your dues. It just depends on where you live really. Some people around here won't hire union companies. In other areas, I could see how they wouldn't hire anyone OTHER than union. Unions are why I shop at Sams club instead of CostCo.




Thats 100 percent anti-union bullshit that your pushing there. Unions do not "tax" you. You pay union dues to help run the union and to pay the people who are fighting and lobbying for you. If you are union you work for a union shop and you don't have to try to get work at a scab shop. Plus union members always make more than their non-union counterparts and the dues you pay are quite small




you also get great benefits and health care for working with a union. which is important if you have a family or plan on having one.

to lowdominion:
The union that i am joining is for framing but i plan to move into flooring once i am in.


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