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OfflineGert
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Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 17
Loc: UK
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
enforcing morality
    #4731230 - 09/29/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Is the arguement "it is wrong to enforce morality" itself a moral principle which it's proponents are seeking to enforce?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: enforcing morality [Re: Gert]
    #4731256 - 09/29/05 01:26 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, that argument does not hold up to scrutiny. I am, however, against enforcing taste. For example, if someone finds homosexuality gross, they have no right to legislate their taste onto others.


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: Gert]
    #4731263 - 09/29/05 01:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I don't see how refraining from action is enforcement.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4731398 - 09/29/05 01:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Go to Singapore, they enforce morality in their laws..I have been there personally, and have never seen such a clean city......


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (09/29/05 01:52 PM)


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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
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Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: enforcing morality [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731412 - 09/29/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think drug laws and prostitution laws in the U.S. are not an enforcement of morality?


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4731457 - 09/29/05 02:00 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well drugs is put under the guise of "public safety" not sure about that one...

I don't agree with prostitution on many different levels the most being how it degrades women...then again if prostitution is the first profession in th world, that would make men the first customer...


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,746
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731760 - 09/29/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Every law that clashes with one's own personal liberty has to do with another's morality. I don't like the idea of prostitution, so it should be illegal. I don't like religion, so we should ban that too. I like cigarettes, let's keep it legal. Thankfully, we have our lords to save us from ourselves.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: Gert]
    #4731937 - 09/29/05 03:43 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think that it's wrong to enforce subjective morality. Certain criminal acts, such as rape and murder and theft, are wrong in an objective sense. Noone has the right to take away your guaranteed basic rights. The laws should reflect a sense of objective morality. The only acts that would be illegal are those that hurt another person against their will.

When people discuss "enforcing morality", they are usually referring to laws made against victimless crime. Apparently our government feels that it's best to make laws against certain things that aren't really bad objectively, but that they feel are bad things. I don't know how anyone could, in good conscience, vote to make drugs a crime. Jimmy Carter once said that the punishment for using drugs shouldn't be worse than the effects from using drugs. When I see the establishment telling people how bad drugs are, how dangerous and easily addictive they are and how they can destroy your life, I always want to ask "Well, if these substances are so addictive, per se, then why are you punishing the person who got hooked? Why not treat them? Why do you make it so that if someone uses these drugs and gets caught, they can't get financial aid from the government to go to college? Is that really going to help them out?"

Hopefully Jefferson, Washington and Adams will rise from their graves and start hauling those scuzzy asshole politicans down to hell.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4732106 - 09/29/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

When people discuss "enforcing morality", they are usually referring to laws made against victimless crime.




some would argue that there is no such thing as a victimless crime.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 15,556
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4732115 - 09/29/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I don't agree with prostitution on many different levels the most being how it degrades women




A prostitute openly and willingly solicits the service she is providing. How is one woman's choice degrading to women as a whole?


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: kotik]
    #4732157 - 09/29/05 04:29 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

When people discuss "enforcing morality", they are usually referring to laws made against victimless crime.




some would argue that there is no such thing as a victimless crime.




If I grow my own mushrooms, eat them on my property, whos being hurt? I think that a lot of the proponents of morality laws would say that, somehow, I'm the one being hurt. But in a free society you should have the right to "hurt yourself", as long as you are aware of the dangers and the benefits.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: kotik]
    #4735752 - 09/30/05 11:17 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


some would argue that there is no such thing as a victimless crime.




The law enforcement system is based on there being a perpetrator and a victim. Whith consensual crimes (victimless) when the perp. and the victim are one and the same person; Who are the police supposed to protect? In theory they are supposed to arrest the perpetrator to protect the victim. With these types of crimes the perpetrator and the victim , are the same person.

The whole process makes a travesty of law enforcement.


Edited by gregorio (09/30/05 06:28 PM)


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: enforcing morality [Re: Gert]
    #4735777 - 09/30/05 11:21 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gerty said:
Is the arguement "it is wrong to enforce morality" itself a moral principle which it's proponents are seeking to enforce?




I tend to go with the 'It's impossible to enforce something that doesn't exist' argument.

(actually, I have finally been tinkering with some moral rules, but they're not the kind that require enforcement)


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: it stars saddam]
    #4736936 - 09/30/05 03:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I don't agree with prostitution on many different levels the most being how it degrades women




A prostitute openly and willingly solicits the service she is providing. How is one woman's choice degrading to women as a whole?



Even better. Who is anyone to say what degrading is? To say what someone else is doing is "degrading"? Is there a moral code written in stone somewhere? That wasn't to sound pretentious, but the point is it is no one's business.


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Offlinegregorio
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: bukkake]
    #4737654 - 09/30/05 06:26 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I for one, want the freedom to be degraded, if I so choose to be.
:wink:


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Invisiblebukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: gregorio]
    #4737664 - 09/30/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I hear you. I want to be pissed on by another woman and let someone take pictures of it and distribute them over the internet, but the FBI is now trying to bar people from doing that. :frown:

Not that I want to do that, but if I did that should be my business.


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: bukkake]
    #4739013 - 10/01/05 12:07 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

When a man can't be crapped on by three handicapped midgets while a blonde crackwhore takes pictures to be put on the Internet, you know it's a police state.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: The14thWarrior]
    #4740237 - 10/01/05 08:06 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Funny you should mention that.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050923-5346.html

Quote:

Last month, the FBI began implementation of an anti-obscenity initiative designed to crack down on those that produce and distribute deviant pornography. According to FBI headquarters, the war against smut is "one of the top priorities" of Attorney General Gonazalez and FBI Director Robert Meuller. Although law enforcement agencies have always been aggressive when it comes to prosecuting exploitative child pornographers, this new initiative is unique in that it targets Internet pornography featuring consenting adults.




Welcome to a police state.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
The Shootist

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 491
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Re: enforcing morality [Re: cb9fl]
    #4741611 - 10/01/05 06:00 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm glad that the war on "smut" is such a big priority. I suppose now that we've sucessfully sealed the US/Mexican border, identified and arrested all of the Al Qaida sleepers cells in America and slashed our violent crime rate down so low, we've go to focus on smut. Good priorities you fucking Republican ass-scum.


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