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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Intelligent Design
    #4730686 - 09/29/05 11:28 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Should it be taught as an alternate theory?

1.I believe it should, WITHOUT getting any specifics to "who" or "what", made the design

2. Evolution is a theory....not fact. Intelligent Design is also a theory....not a fact.

3. Isn't it good to hear all sides of an issue?

4. If you have eaten shrooms, do you think that nature was a product of evolution....?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730730 - 09/29/05 11:38 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
1.I believe it should, WITHOUT getting any specifics to "who" or "what", made the design



It was the flying spaghetti monster.

Quote:

2. Evolution is a theory....not fact. Intelligent Design is also a theory....not a fact.



Evolution is a theory which explains observable phenomena(i.e. evidence) and is falsifiable. Intelligent Design is a dogma which is not falsifiable, and thus not scientifically valid.

Quote:

3. Isn't it good to hear all sides of an issue?



I prefer to just stick to science when teaching science.

Quote:

4. If you have eaten shrooms, do you think that nature was a product of evolution....?



No. Nature, as in the entire known universe, is most likely the product of the big bang.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730740 - 09/29/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Pretty much everything you accept as science is a theory.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730755 - 09/29/05 11:42 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


In various sciences, a theory is a logically self-consistent model or framework describing the behavior of a certain natural or social phenomenon, thus either originating from observable facts or supported by them. Scientific theories are formulated, developed, and evaluated according to the scientific method.





Quote:


There is sometimes confusion between the scientific use of the word theory and its more informal use as a synonym for "speculation" or "conjecture." In science, a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a firm empirical basis, i.e., it

1. is consistent with pre-existing theory to the extent that the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense,

2. is supported by many strands of evidence rather than a single foundation, ensuring that it probably is a good approximation if not totally correct,

3. has survived many critical real world tests that could have proven it false,

4. makes predictions that might someday be used to disprove the theory, and

5.is the best known explanation, in the sense of Occam's Razor, of the infinite variety of alternative explanations for the same data.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory


ID is not a theory in the scientific sense of the word, it is speculation and conjecture.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Silversoul]
    #4730785 - 09/29/05 11:46 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't the big bang what started evolution? So isn't the big bang the first stage of evolution?

I am sure you are familiar with the Scientific Method....whats the first step? OBSERVATION. So you have a theory derived from the scientific method, even though, you cannot actively observe it...isn't that a contradiction? Not practicing what you preach?

I'm sure that all of the Native Americans, Hindus, and Christan's that believe in a higher power are wrong , because, well scientists say so...


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinelowdominion
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730830 - 09/29/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

ID is not a theory there is zero scientific evidence to support it so it can't even be considered a good idea. It's just religious nonsense


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730850 - 09/29/05 12:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Isn't the big bang what started evolution? So isn't the big bang the first stage of evolution?



The big bang and evolution are two separate scientific theories that explain two different phenomena. The big bang explains how the universe originated and why it is expanding. Evolution explains the origin of species, and the genetic similarity of all life.

Quote:

I am sure you are familiar with the Scientific Method....whats the first step? OBSERVATION. So you have a theory derived from the scientific method, even though, you cannot actively observe it...isn't that a contradiction? Not practicing what you preach?



WHAT? Evolution is based on observation. The fossil record, for example.

Quote:

I'm sure that all of the Native Americans, Hindus, and Christan's that believe in a higher power are wrong , because, well scientists say so...



Scientists don't say so, and you're being petty and immature about this. The fact that evolution and the big bang are scientifically valid and match up to the evidence does not preclude the existence of a "higher power." It simply means that such a higher power is not necessary to explain things like the origin of the universe or the origin of man.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Silversoul]
    #4730984 - 09/29/05 12:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Could evolution happen without the "BIG BANG"?

or does one depend on the other?

No Shit....

I said ACTIVE OBSERVATION...looking at carbon dating is a hail Mary.

Native Americans, Hindus, and Christians believe that a higher power in necessary to understand all things, including creation. Science does not, so there is a finger pointing going on on both sides, in regards to who is right.

On being immature, your " flying spaghetti monster" comment takes the cake.....


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4730990 - 09/29/05 12:34 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

No one forces anyone to believe in Evolution at school. Its just in history class you wouldnt go repeating greek or roman myths as historical fact than why do the same in Science when teaching evolution.

The fact is Evolution is a scientific theory wear as creationism has no scientific variable to back it up, but is it possible... sure. Is evolution possible most certainly. Hell what if aliens came to earth and impregnated apes who fuckin knows.

The point is evolution is the most logical and valid theory and is more than likely the way the human race was created.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731003 - 09/29/05 12:37 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Could evolution happen without the "BIG BANG"?

or does one depend on the other?



That is irrelevant. Evolution is not a theory on the origin of the universe, nor is the big bang a theory on the origin of species.

Quote:

I said ACTIVE OBSERVATION...looking at carbon dating is a hail Mary.



Considering that we know exactly what rate carbon-14 decays at, it's certainly scientifically valid. And no, you didn't say active observation. Nor is that a requirement for scientific validity. Observations can be indirect and still be valid. What is important about a theory is that it makes testable predictions and is falsifiable. Evolution meets both these standards. Intelligent design does not.

Quote:

Native Americans, Hindus, and Christians believe that a higher power in necessary to understand all things, including creation. Science does not, so there is a finger pointing going on on both sides, in regards to who is right.



Well, I'm sorry that science can't accomodate superstition. There's a reason why it's science, you know.

Quote:

On being immature, your " flying spaghetti monster" comment takes the cake.....



Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is just as valid a theory as Intelligent Design(using the word "theory" very loosely here). Sorry you got all butthurt over it.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Silversoul]
    #4731055 - 09/29/05 12:50 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I am sure you are familiar with the Scientific Method....whats the first step? OBSERVATION. So you have a theory derived from the scientific method, even though, you cannot actively observe it...isn't that a contradiction? Not practicing what you preach
^^^^^^

I didn't say that right? (I think you will find the phase "actively observe" in there)

To the contrary, I did not get "butthurt", why the personal attacks?
Why are you so mad that I believe in something different? That is the only thing I can deduce from your posts....we can disagree, but to be like this is not that polite for a debate....


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731082 - 09/29/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not mad that you believe something different. You can believe whatever superstitions you want to believe. The fact that you do not understand the scientific method is of no concern to me, though it does concern me that so many policy makers share your ignorance of the subject.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731084 - 09/29/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It's fine that you believe something different but when you try to blur the line between science and religious dogma people are bound to point out your error.



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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


Edited by cb9fl (09/29/05 12:57 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731090 - 09/29/05 12:58 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

you seem to be confusing logical and factual arguments
with personal attacks.

you'd be doing yourself a favor to learn the difference.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: afoaf]
    #4731115 - 09/29/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, doesn't hold water here....saying, "immature" and "butthurt" are personal attacks in my book...they are not logical or factual arguments...

And when someone says that I did not post something, when I did, is also wrong....

Sorry, I even started this post, its one of my first times here in this forum. Guess my view, even if it is flawed, is taken here with such dismay


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (09/29/05 01:04 PM)


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731137 - 09/29/05 01:07 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Shouldn't any scientific theory be testable and have results that are reproducible?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4731306 - 09/29/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

According to Paradigm I don't understand the scientific method, I'm too stupid to answer that post........


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4731648 - 09/29/05 02:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I personally would like to see both taught in school. One in a science class, and the other in a religion class.

Both could be mentioned in both classes, you just don't dwell on science in religion class, and you don't dwell on creationism in science class.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: EonTan]
    #4732084 - 09/29/05 04:12 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I actually would like to see creationism or intelligent design discussed in science class in order to help students understand why they are not scientific, and what the difference is between theory and dogma.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Intelligent Design [Re: EonTan]
    #4732107 - 09/29/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EonTan said:
I personally would like to see both taught in school. One in a science class, and the other in a religion class.

Both could be mentioned in both classes, you just don't dwell on science in religion class, and you don't dwell on creationism in science class.




Agreed. While I have no problem with intelligent desgin per se, it should not be taught along with science.

In this day and age however I do see some benefit in being taught about other culture's religions and beliefs. If people really want intelligent design in the classroom than I'm not against it, just do it in religious studies 101.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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