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OfflineZooDoggy
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Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi
    #4724775 - 09/28/05 12:32 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi

Link


Edited by ZooDoggy (09/28/05 12:35 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4724809 - 09/28/05 12:43 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You mean the Saudis were trying to inflate prices based on the fact that they THOUGHT they had low reserves? And it turns out that they had more than they THOUGHT? I don't believe it....the Saudis we can trust...they are our "Allies", I mean none of the hijackers on 9/11 were Saudi..........FUCK THOSE MOON CRICKETS!!!!!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4724819 - 09/28/05 12:48 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

We're saved!!!!! :rolleyes:

I'll beleive anything the Saudi's say about their oil when I see the tankers full of said oil :smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: trendal]
    #4724826 - 09/28/05 12:49 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's not just about how much oil. it's about how much oil we can REFINE.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4724938 - 09/28/05 01:15 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's magic!!


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4725058 - 09/28/05 01:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
It's not just about how much oil. it's about how much oil we can REFINE.




Yeah...it's really about both. If you don't have enough oil to refine in the first place, it doesn't matter one lick how many refineries you have or how good they are.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4725572 - 09/28/05 03:42 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Oh goody. Now I won't have to mothball the Hummer!

Just think what 20-30 more years of fossil fuels, at this rate of accleration of consuption will do...how high will the CO2 component of the atmosphere get? Maybe up to 1000ppm?

Good thing rising CO2 levels don't contribute to global warming, as the tinfoil hat guys say.

Soon, we'll all be flying to the moon!

And the market will save us.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4726139 - 09/28/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Wtf you guys worrying about?!?! Just move away from the coasts, move to higher elevations, anything at sea leavel or above it.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: trendal]
    #4726187 - 09/28/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
It's not just about how much oil. it's about how much oil we can REFINE.




Yeah...it's really about both. If you don't have enough oil to refine in the first place, it doesn't matter one lick how many refineries you have or how good they are.








JOHANNESBURG, South Africa - Saudi Arabia's oil minister said Tuesday that world oil reserves are more than enough to meet rising future demand but that without new refineries prices will remain high and markets volatile.

"These are turbulent times for oil markets. Prices are under pressure because the petroleum industries infrastructure is stretched thin," Ali Naimi told the 18th World Petroleum Congress in Johannesburg. "Most of the spare capacity of the 1980s and 1990s has disappeared, resulting in a system that has a much smaller margin for error."



how many new refineries have we built in the last few years/decades????


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4726241 - 09/28/05 06:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

how many new refineries have we built in the last few years/decades????




Not a single one in the United States since 1973. Further, many of the refineries that were operating in 1973 (over 300) have since closed. There are now just 143 (or maybe it's 163 -- can't remember now).



Phred


--------------------


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OfflineZooDoggy
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4726260 - 09/28/05 06:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Well, if th only probem is having refineries then expect problems cause the oil companines have already proved that they can use lack of refinery ability to take in record profits.  Why would they change unless i hate to say this...Govt gets involoved.
AAhhhh.  I said it.  We need a president to tell them that they build more or suffer the consequences.  They have made record profits lately and should be reinvesting it. 
Dont expect it though...this is all about profits.  :mad2:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: ZooDoggy]
    #4726358 - 09/28/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

something is fucked up.

after Katrina struck, OPEC had offered to put 2 million barrels a day on the market but had no takers, while the International Energy Agency had offered 60 million and only 11 million was taken.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: Phred]
    #4726404 - 09/28/05 07:11 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

how many new refineries have we built in the last few years/decades????




Not a single one in the United States since 1973. Further, many of the refineries that were operating in 1973 (over 300) have since closed. There are now just 143 (or maybe it's 163 -- can't remember now).



Phred








Katrina Reveals Gas Price Folly
Environmentalists, NIMBYs have blocked new oil refineries for 30 years
By Adrian Moore


With oil and gas production in gulf states at a standstill in the wake of devastating Hurricane Katrina, oil prices hitting a record $70 per barrel, and an average gasoline price of over $2.60 a gallon, the Bush administration has decided to tap the nation's Strategic Petroleum Reserve.

The move comes amid numerous predictions that gas prices will shoot up over $3 per gallon throughout California this Labor Day weekend. Bloomberg News reports that Katrina forced the temporary closure of at least eight refineries, responsible for as much as 10 percent of the nation's oil production.

The ongoing fallout from Katrina sheds light on our woeful energy policies, demonstrating that we are so vulnerable that even a temporary shutdown of oil refineries in one corner of the country will have a huge impact on gasoline prices across the country and in California.

Why? Supply and demand. And not simply the supply of oil we get from the Middle East, Venezuela, and others.

A new oil refinery has not been built in the United States since 1976. During that time, our gasoline use has increased over 25 percent. The nation's 149 existing refineries have been running at maximum capacity trying to meet record demand and, as a result, not only do we import oil, we actually have to import 10 percent of our daily gasoline from refineries overseas.

So when Hurricane Katrina or a refinery fire or anything else causes even just a few refineries to shut down for awhile, there is absolutely no excess capacity nationwide to make up the difference, and prices at the pump skyrocket.

For the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the world this is a ridiculous situation that will only get worse as our insatiable demand for gasoline keeps growing and refinery capacity falls further behind in the coming years.

Just a few new refineries would alleviate the problem and help keep our gas prices lower and steadier.

But getting an oil refinery built is next to impossible, hence the 30-year construction drought. There will always be environmental activists who fight any new proposed refinery, regardless of where it might be located and how environmentally safe it is. And our environmental rules give them the upper hand.

The environmental impact-report process mobilizes the "not in my back yard" elements to oppose any proposed refinery, but it does not mobilize people or groups who are looking at national energy needs. You wind up with a very lopsided discussion where potential problems are thoroughly and perhaps overly represented, but the only group pointing out the benefits of the refinery is the "evil" oil company asking to build it - even though every automobile driver would benefit.

Consider the example of Arizona Clean Fuels, which has been trying to build a small refinery outside Yuma for almost 10 years. It took five years just to get air-quality permits. Now they hope to be operational in 2010, 15 years after they started the project.

President Bush recently signed a new energy bill that tries to make it easier to build new oil refineries, especially in areas with high unemployment ? where the new jobs would likely be welcome. And yet, special-interest groups decried the provision as an environmental and public health injustice, arguing that these communities won't want refineries but won't have the political power to fight them off.

The opposition to building new refineries ignores the dramatic technological improvements that have been made since an oil refinery was last constructed here in 1976. New, clean refineries emit far less pollution than older refineries, with new scrubbers and design changes that dramatically reduce sulfur and other emissions. And at the same time our ability to model and map emission characteristics and distribution lets us choose the best locations for new facilities ? where they will have the least possible impact on people and the environment.

Even as gas prices have soared beyond $2.50 per gallon in many parts of the country, Americans have not stopped driving. We might tighten our budgets elsewhere to make up for the added expenses, but we show no signs of giving up our cars. At some point, we need to admit our dependence on gasoline and add the capacity and refineries that will help lower gas prices.

Our environmental review process needs to embrace local concerns and impacts, but it can't facilitate the "not in my back yard" resistance that completely derails plans for any new refineries.

Hurricane Katrina has revealed an ominous weakness in our energy policy. If we don't start building refineries and adding capacity to handle our growing gas needs, it won't take a natural disaster to send gas prices soaring even higher.

Adrian Moore, Ph.D. is vice president of research at Reason Foundation.
http://www.reason.org/commentaries/moore_20050901.shtml


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4727279 - 09/28/05 10:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah those powerful environmental groups just keep crushing those weak oil companies. Does anyone actually believe this considering the best friend the oil companies ever had is running the show?

Methinks the answer lies elsewhere.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: Jellric]
    #4727862 - 09/28/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
Yeah those powerful environmental groups just keep crushing those weak oil companies. Does anyone actually believe this considering the best friend the oil companies ever had is running the show?

Methinks the answer lies elsewhere.





so what is the answer? (where does it lie?)

"A new oil refinery has not been built in the United States since 1976. During that time, our gasoline use has increased over 25 percent. The nation's 149 existing refineries have been running at maximum capacity trying to meet record demand and, as a result, not only do we import oil, we actually have to import 10 percent of our daily gasoline from refineries overseas."




conspiracy????


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4727989 - 09/29/05 12:01 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There are actually refinery plants that are running ABOVE original design capacity and BEYOND original design life.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4730411 - 09/29/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

There was quite a few explosions and major fires at refineries in the US this summer...probably evidence that they are running beyond capacity. Another possibility is that they are running 24/7 with NO time offline for scheduled maintenance.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Registered: 08/08/03
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4730500 - 09/29/05 10:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I would hazard a guess that refining is not a very profitable business.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: trendal]
    #4730840 - 09/29/05 12:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
There was quite a few explosions and major fires at refineries in the US this summer...probably evidence that they are running beyond capacity. Another possibility is that they are running 24/7 with NO time offline for scheduled maintenance.



The nature of the process requires that they do run 24/7. Refinery plants usually run for at least a couple years before major scheduled maintenance. Items such as pumps and heat exchanges usually are redundant and one can be locked out for maintenance while the plant keeps running. This is usually not the case with furnaces, distillation towers, compressors, cracking units and other such major equipment.

Running plants at higher capacity can require operators to do a lot more work, and be harried with constantly changing from one task to another. One can easily see how this could lead to lapses in judgment in processes requiring attention to detail. Another factor affecting safety is that refinery plant operators are on rotating shifts, meaning that after coming back from a day off they start a different shift (read: constant jet lag). As far as I know this is universal in the industry. The rotating shifts would seem to be a major factor which could be changed to increase safety and efficiency. However, investment in operator training is a major expense and requires several years to complete, making it unattractive to put employees in a situation where they may take advantage of school or do something else to start another line of work.

Sorry for the tangent.


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
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Re: Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4730858 - 09/29/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The nation's 149 existing refineries have been running at maximum capacity trying to meet record demand and, as a result, not only do we import oil..

That is incorrect. The U.S. imports oil because its oil production peaked in 1970 and has run downhill ever since.

As for the Saudis claim that their reserves have doubled, I would take that with a big grain of salt. OPEC members' exports are tied to their stated reserves. In other words, claiming your reserves are higher allows you to export and sell more oil than you could otherwise. Big incentive there to fudge the numbers.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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