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OfflineMJF
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Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change
    #4723841 - 09/28/05 04:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I think I figured something out today about myself.....

Whatever direction I'm heading in...I think is turning the people I know away from me...and it's starting to make me doubt my self...and thinking that I need to change. Of course there are things that I want to change about myself, but I'm talking more on a core personality level.
I wonder if people start to hate themselves because they know others dislike them....and that is what brings change so that they can be happy again. What happens to the guy who for the most part is happy with himself...would like to change just to be accepted and liked by others...but would not like the person he would have to change into...or is unable to change into a likable person? I feel sorry for that man.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4723871 - 09/28/05 04:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

change because you want to change not because others around you feel uncomfortable, or don't like you. it really doesn't matter how others veiw you just as long as you become happy with yourself and the person that you are becoming.

hating/disliking shows weakness in strength and character!!!


--------------------
suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (09/28/05 04:30 AM)


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: spudamore]
    #4723904 - 09/28/05 04:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hating/disliking shows weakness in strength and character!!!





To my logic that sounds correct. But in the real world it seems like conformity (behaving a certain way, liking and disliking certain things) shows strength and character.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4723926 - 09/28/05 04:41 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
But in the real world it seems like conformity (behaving a certain way, liking and disliking certain things) shows strength and character.




yeah it seems like it, but are these people really happy? are they free from their masks or just want to belong? i think it only shows strength and character to those with similar behaviour/experience/perception.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: spudamore]
    #4723938 - 09/28/05 04:48 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

spudamore said:
yeah it seems like it, but are these people really happy? are they free from their masks or just want to belong? i think it only shows strength and character to those with similar behaviour/experience/perception.




So then strength and character are just in the eye of the beholder and you don't have it unless someone says you have it. What is up with society/humans and almost like the need to outcast people? Does society need outcasts to feel better about them selves? Do they need to know that....atleast they're not as bad as "fill in the blank."? Or do outcasts just bring it all on themselves because they really are just disgusting creatures that should be banned and cease to reproduce?


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4723960 - 09/28/05 05:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
So then strength and character are just in the eye of the beholder and you don't have it unless someone says you have it.





yes i think to some extent, but you would, i guess that you would have to feel powerful within yourself to step outside of what societies groups to say what is acceptable, but still staying within its laws.

Quote:

MJF said:
What is up with society/humans and almost like the need to outcast people? Does society need outcasts to feel better about them selves?





imo its all about power, society/people feel powerful rejecting things that they don't understand, or not willing to understand. i think its a major trait that has been learned throughout the ages. not many in the modern day society has the ability to put themselves in others shoes, and only see one side of perception which is their own. not to say that everybody does it.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: spudamore]
    #4724073 - 09/28/05 07:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I have a similar experience, while my conscious levels are generally inhibited by pot most of the time, I still maintain a good view of my priorities. When I got to college I was excited, in shape, with a good self esteem, and could'nt wait to see what was in store for me. Now, two years later, I find myself mentally loathing what I have become. I consiously and subconsiously take action to cover up things that I feel as flaws in my personality/physical appearance, flaws that most people probably don't notice, but I still feel extremely self-conscious about them in spite of the fact. It's almost as if I have a rude voice in my head (not literally) that cuts down my confidence before I can transcend that barrier. It seems almost impossible to remove the wall of negativity that surrounds me.

"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones."
-Francois de La Rochefoucauld (1613 - 1680)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4724398 - 09/28/05 10:39 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I wonder if people start to hate themselves because they know others dislike them....and that is what brings change so that they can be happy again.




i wonder why the others have a problem?  maybe there's some way for the person to appease his own wants and follow his own direction, and appease others at the same time?

Quote:

hating/disliking shows weakness in strength and character!!!



i think this is true insofar as hate is a kind of pain, but it's still not within someone's power to change.  and everyone has hates i think.

Quote:

But in the real world it seems like conformity (behaving a certain way, liking and disliking certain things) shows strength and character.



while agree conformity can be beneficial, the part about liking and disliking certain things- IME the most successful people i've met were all very assertive.

Quote:

society/people feel powerful rejecting things that they don't understand, or not willing to understand.



good point :thumbup:
i wonder if rejecting things you don't understand is the only way to feel powerful.


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4724677 - 09/28/05 12:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
while agree conformity can be beneficial, the part about liking and disliking certain things- IME the most successful people i've met were all very assertive.




How does conformity and beig assertive coorelate?

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
I wonder if rejecting things you don't understand is the only wat to feel powerful.




I don't think it has anything to do with understanding (maybe though...and in some cases). I think it has to do with just disliking them and them not being beneficial to the person's agenda (whatever that may be...maybe they just can't find a way to bring them on board). And so they reject them because they find that they are in the way of whatever it is they are trying to gain. Maybe rejecting is a way of getting power and getting power is feeling power.

edit: to add that last sentence.


Edited by MJF (09/28/05 04:05 PM)


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4725686 - 09/28/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MoeRon said:
consiously and subconsiously take action to cover up things that I feel as flaws in my personality/physical appearance, flaws that most people probably don't notice, but I still feel extremely self-conscious about them in spite of the fact. It's almost as if I have a rude voice in my head (not literally) that cuts down my confidence before I can transcend that barrier. It seems almost impossible to remove the wall of negativity that surrounds me.




I definitely feel you on that one. Are you self-conscious about those qualities because you yourself think they are flaws or do you think that other people would view them as flaws?


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InvisibleVirgilKane
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4726168 - 09/28/05 06:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones."
-Francois de La Rochefoucauld (1613 - 1680)





  Wow!  This one should definitely go in the "quotes" thread if it's not there already!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


--------------------
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense...

"Religion is a defense against a religious experience"
              Carl G. Jung

 
"So really, ordinary reality is a kind of chemical habit, sanctioned by culture, which says it's okay to use certain drugs, eat certain foods, and have certain sexual behaviors. However, when you transcend all this pre-conditioning by returning to the original wisdom of the animal body, then you discover this immense dimension of opportunity. For some people, it is a frightening risk. To me, that's the psychedelic experience."
Terence McKenna


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Self-concept/Apeasement/Acceptance/Change [Re: MJF]
    #4728705 - 09/29/05 01:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

How does conformity and beig assertive coorelate?




i'm thinking of self-expression that doesn't offend others.

Quote:

I don't think it has anything to do with understanding (maybe though...and in some cases). I think it has to do with just disliking them and them not being beneficial to the person's agenda (whatever that may be...maybe they just can't find a way to bring them on board). And so they reject them because they find that they are in the way of whatever it is they are trying to gain. Maybe rejecting is a way of getting power and getting power is feeling power.




i think what you say is essentially right, but then there's two kinds of rejection "i don't like X" vs. a cognitive kind of rejection "things can't be that way" (when they obviously are).


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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