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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Time master [Re: dr0mni]
    #4717695 - 09/27/05 12:58 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

don't need a constant trippy reminder of how to be a good person. I already know...




I didn't know that psychedelics reminded you of how to be a good person. I didn't know that was the goal of using them. It's not for me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Time master [Re: dr0mni]
    #4717705 - 09/27/05 01:00 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

believe that the eight fold path is one of the best to follow:
Perfect View
perfect thought
perfect speech
perfect action
perfect work
perfect concentration
perfect mindfulness
and perfect effort.




Too difficult to be "perfect" or even to strive after it. But good luck with all that. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLuke
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Registered: 07/27/05
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Re: Time master [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4718451 - 09/27/05 03:50 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I back Icelander on this one. Certain drug experiences can provide insight giving one a serious head start down the path. Of course, the intent must be there. A psychedelic experience is just as valid a spiritual experience as a three day vision quest with fasting and meditation. I would however suggest that persons with emotional difficulties avoid drugs and stick with the more labor intensive methods of spiritual experience like meditation.




This is true, ignorance wants the drugs slienced. Just as gnosis by the western mind.


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Time master [Re: dr0mni]
    #4718467 - 09/27/05 03:56 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

dr0mni said:
yeah, if you can use psychedelics we effort then you will be a lot closer, but they certainly aren't "the way"

I believe that the eight fold path is one of the best to follow:
Perfect View
perfect thought
perfect speech
perfect action
perfect work
perfect concentration
perfect mindfulness
and perfect effort.

When I smoke weed, I can't be mindful. I can't concentrate as perfectly as I could. When I eat psychedelics, I don't need effort.

and even though I may feel the wisdom and universal love, without the mindfulness, concentration, and effort, I slowly veer off of the eight-fold path.

I've surrendered to shrooms. I've lost my mind. I've flowed with the moment. And now I don't need to anymore. I've learned what I needed and am moving on. I've taken those lessons, learned how to integrate them into my life, and I don't need a constant trippy reminder of how to be a good person. I already know...




You know mindfulness is Maya and so is effort. Nothing can be perfect.
The natural is truth.

Weed is a very hard tool too crack. Meaning learning how too transcend with it. Thats why it takes years of smoking.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Time master [Re: Luke]
    #4718815 - 09/27/05 09:20 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

I've always said (maybe not on this forum, but in real life) that the psychedelic spirituality was just as valid as any "legitimate" religion. A spiritual experiance is a spiritual experiance no matter what the context. I'll say it again, I don't deny the power.

"Perfect" is only a translation of some ancient word. Sometimes the word "Right" is used instead. Try not to confuse it with western ideas of right/wrong, or correct/incorrect. The meaning is a little tricky to grasp...

"The natural is truth"

Yes, so what state of mind is natural to our existance? When we get high or trip, we always come down. We can take as many or as much of whatever drug we want but no matter what, we always come back to sobriety when the drugs run out. Sobriety is natural, and so is occasional drug use. But it is also natural for the drug high to end, and for us to move on. Shrooms grow only a for a few months out of the year for a reason.

Yes, drugs are tools. Just like antibiotics. When you have an infection that your body can't fight off naturally, you take an antibiotic for as long as is neccessary. If you stop taking them too early, the infection may come back. If you keep taking them after the infection is over, uneccessarily, then it prevents your body from fighting infections that it could easily take care of itself. After too much of this, your immune system is weakened because it isn't getting the "exercise" that it needs, and you must rely on antibiotics in order to fight infections which your body should be able to deal with on its own. Taking too many antibiotics also causes "super bugs" or antibiotic-resistant bacteria to develop. And almost nothing can stop those fuckers.

Moral of the story? Only take the medicine when it is needed, and give it up when it becomes uneccessary.

oh, and I spent 3-4 years smoking weed almost daily. All it did was make me complacent. Weed is like a philips-head screwdriver in a clown costume. It is a tool, and it's fun as hell, but its uses are extremely limited. More of a toy than a tool.


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Offlinedr0mni
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psychedelics: Spiritual Tool, or Spiritual Crutch? [Re: dr0mni]
    #4718820 - 09/27/05 09:23 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

oh, and I know we've all heard this story before, but I'll post it back up so we can all read it ONE MORE TIME! lol...

This was the beginning of Alpert's devotion to Maharaj-ji and the point of departure
for his transformation into Ram Dass. It provoked a catharsis in which Alpert's
rational, thinking mind (his primary defensive tool) was temporarily paralyzed,
flooding him with the kinds of buried feelings that signal a return of going on
being. But it was not the end of Maharaj-ji's teachings. Still preoccupied with his
experiences with LSD, Ram Dass resolved one evening to speak to his guru about this
drug. The next morning Maharaj-ji called for him and immediately demanded the
"medicine." At first unsure of what Maharaj-ji might mean (he was unused to thinking
of the drug as medicine, even though he was carrying it in pill form), Ram Dass soon
realized what was being asked of him and he ran to his car to fetch the drug.
Maharaj-ji held out his hand, demanded 3 of the pills, popped them in his mouth, and
continued on with his day. Nothing seemed to happen to him.

Ram Dass was amazed. Nothing had happened. For Ram Dass at the time, this was the
ultimate demonstration of some kind of spiritual attainment. He knew firsthand how
powerful the drug could be, and yet here was someone who was totally untouched by
it, someone more powerful than LSD. Ram Dass's attachment to the drug was loosened.
He came back to America and began to tell his story, but still, somewhere in the
back of his mind, he harbored doubts about what he had seen. "Perhaps he hadn't
really swallowed them," he thought to himself. "Maybe he just threw them over his
shoulder." On his next trip to India, Maharaj-ji called to him again, asking, as if
he couldn't quite remember, "Say did you give me any medicine last time you were in
India? Did I take it?"

Ram Dass answered some what equivocal, "Well I think so."
"Oh did it have any effect on me?"
"No, I don't think so."
"Oh go away," Maharaj-ji said. The next morning he called to him again, "You got any
more of that medicine?" he asked.
"Bring it."

Ram Dass gave him the equivalent of five pills this time. Very slowly, Maharaj-ji
took each pill and placed it into his mouth, making sure that he could be seen
swallowing each one. Then he began to act agitated. He called for water, questioning
Ram Dass about how long the drug would take to act, called for a wristwatch, and
then, asked, "Will it make me crazy?"

"Probably," said Ram Dass, and Maharaj-ji at that point went down underneath his
blanket and came up making all kinds of strange faces. But the joke was on Ram Dass.
Maharaj-ji was just playing with him. At the end of the hour he asked him, "You got
anything stronger?" Again, nothing out of the ordinary happened. Ram Dass stayed
with Maharaj-ji all day and nothing happened. At one point Maharaj-ji told him that
drugs like this were known in India long ago but that knowledge about them was now
lost. "It's useful, it's useful, not the true Samadhi, but it's useful," he said,
using a Sanskrit work for the meditative attainment to hake his point. Later he told
the young westerners who were starting to gather around him in India, "If you're in
a cool place and you're quiet and you're feeling much peace and your mind is turned
toward God, it's useful." You have a visit with a holy man in that place, he said.
But, he added, you can't stay there, it doesn't last. That's why it?s better to
become the saint rather than just visit him. Ram Dass was amazed at this display of
psychic power. He knew from firsthand experience how the ego could be decimated by
LSD. But here was a man who was unfazed by it. Maharaj-ji's ego was so flexible, so
transparent, that the drug did not seem to touch him.

Taken from: "Going on Being: buddhism and the way of change" By Mark Epstein, M.D.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Time master [Re: dr0mni]
    #4718949 - 09/27/05 10:17 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Only take the medicine when it is needed, and give it up when it becomes uneccessary.




Now this to me is great advice and puts it all in perspective. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Time master [Re: Icelander]
    #4718961 - 09/27/05 10:24 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

thank god! Cuz that's all I was trying to say...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Time master [Re: Icelander]
    #4718974 - 09/27/05 10:32 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Then why didn't ya just say that? :grin:

I've heard versions of that Ram Dass story and there all slightly different. (kind of like an urban legend. :wink:)  I once had to deal with the police on a four way hit of acid and came down stright as you please for about an hour. Then went back up when the problem was over, so this is something anyone can do with acid. I want to see him do it on salvia. :grin:

My experiences with Ram Dass haven't been all that great. The time I saw him in person he was stoned on pot and not making sense so he just told all his old stories from his books. I really wanted my money back even though the tickets were free. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Time master [Re: Icelander]
    #4719105 - 09/27/05 11:35 AM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

why diddle around in algebra when you could be moving on to calculus?




If everything is really connected, can you not learn the basis behind calculus from algebra?? :grin: Are they not so entwined that one leads into the other? Are we not all connected?

Quote:

but they certainly aren't "the way"




The psychedelics definitely showed you the way. Everyone's path is different. Who are you to say someone's own personal evolution does not involve countless destructions of the ego. We are all different.
We are all connected. Try praising something instead of putting it down! :grin:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Time master [Re: mecreateme]
    #4719996 - 09/27/05 03:19 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

mecreateme said:
Quote:

why diddle around in algebra when you could be moving on to calculus?




If everything is really connected, can you not learn the basis behind calculus from algebra?? :grin: Are they not so entwined that one leads into the other? Are we not all connected?

Quote:

but they certainly aren't "the way"




The psychedelics definitely showed you the way. Everyone's path is different. Who are you to say someone's own personal evolution does not involve countless destructions of the ego. We are all different.
We are all connected. Try praising something instead of putting it down! :grin:




Yes, you HAVE to move through algebra to get to calculus at all, but if you've already learned all that you can of algebra, there is no sense dwelling on it. Move on!

I'm no one to tell anyone anything. I only speak from experiance. And I know that countless psychedelic ego-destructions eventually just give birth to a new psychedelic ego, which is even worse than the original because it thinks it's enlightened! LOL!

To see the way is one thing, to walk it is another. I've seen, and seen it, and seen it, and goddamnit I think it's time for me to start walking! I'm done climbing trees, and I'm ready to get out of the forest.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Time master [Re: dr0mni]
    #4720607 - 09/27/05 05:17 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

and I'm ready to get out of the forest.




I suggest heading for New York. Or Disneyworld.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Time master [Re: Icelander]
    #4721336 - 09/27/05 07:29 PM (16 years, 23 days ago)

:rolleyes:


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