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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws
    #4720741 - 09/27/05 05:38 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050927/wl_nm/security_france_dc

Tue Sep 27, 2:07 AM ET
PARIS (Reuters) - France wants to put closed circuit cameras on more of its streets as part of new anti-terror plans unveiled on Monday just hours after police detained nine suspected Islamic militants.

Mobile phone operators and Internet cafe owners will also be required to keep records of users and calls under a proposed new law, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy said.

Earlier, police searched premises in the Yvelines and Eure regions outside Paris in dawn raids, a judicial source said. The suspects were taken to the headquarters of the domestic intelligence agency DST for questioning.

The source said the raids took place as part of an investigation into possible Islamic militant attacks in France. It was not clear whether police were acting on intelligence of a specific or imminent threat to national security.

Police believe the suspects are linked to the al Qaeda-aligned Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), Algeria's largest outlawed rebel movement, the source said.

The head of the French national police said in July the group had contacted al Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, about carrying out attacks in France.

France believes Islamic militants could strike in spite of outspoken French opposition to the U.S.-led war in Iraq. Paris shares intelligence with the United States and Britain, Washington's main military ally in Iraq.

"The threat exists, and it is at a very high level," Sarkozy told France 3 television, referring to threats in France.

INTERNET CAFES, MOBILE PHONES

In a drive to strengthen France's security following the deadly July 7 bombings on London's transport network, Sarkozy unveiled plans to increase use of CCTV surveillance in airports and train stations, and also near shops and banks.

He said the government was also tightening regulation of Internet cafes and mobile phone operators.

"Terrorists are using the Internet in an extraordinary way. We will target Internet cafes because we realize terrorists are going to these cafes because they have guaranteed anonymity there," Sarkozy said.

The Internet and phone record measures will be covered by a three-year time limit and will need parliamentary approval to stay in force after 2008, Le Figaro daily said.

Media also reported that under the plans to be presented to the cabinet in October, the authorities will be allowed to step up passport controls in transborder trains and take photographs of cars' number plates and passengers at motorway toll stations.

Judicial officials said that among those detained on Monday was a 35-year-old Algerian recently freed after serving a 10-year jail term for attacks in France in 1995 which killed 10 people. The attacks were carried out by Algeria's Armed Islamic Group.

The suspects can be held for four days, then they must be placed under formal investigation by a judge or released.
-----


I still don't understand the logic here. I believe the UK has the highest number of CCTV systems in operation (surpassing Italy not too long ago) yet they weren't able to thwart the terrorist attacks in July and fumbled for some time to produce any relevent data after the event. What the hell is the point of installing so many cameras under the pretext of counterterrorism if they don't actually benefit the situation?


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"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: TheDude]
    #4721037 - 09/27/05 06:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

and what are they afraid of?

unlike Israel, Great Britain, Spain, and the US, France has done nothing to "deserve" to be attacked?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4724221 - 09/28/05 09:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

EVERYBODY RUN!!!!THE FRENCH MEAN BUSINESS. The French, who owe there entire existence and culture to the United States (cause we kicked the Germans out in WW2) might finally realize that "peaceful negotiations" cant be done with Radical Muslims.... I would love to see the day, but I do not think it will transpire....I mean your talking about a country that has to pay outsiders to fight there wars for them ( the French Foreign Legion)


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: TheDude]
    #4724364 - 09/28/05 10:22 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheDude said:

I believe the UK has the highest number of CCTV systems in operation (surpassing Italy not too long ago) yet they weren't able to thwart the terrorist attacks in July and fumbled for some time to produce any relevant data after the event. What the hell is the point of installing so many cameras under the pretext of counterterrorism if they don't actually benefit the situation?




A report I saw on the BBC a few days ago, claimed the UK has 20% of the public CCTV cameras in the entire world.

New technology is being developed that will monitor the movement of number plates and faces, the database for which will be compiled from the up and coming National ID Card register. The government has publicly stated its intention to implement mass surveillance systems. Number plate recognition cameras are already being used to watch for stolen cars and issue speeding fines based average speed.

In addition to this they have already have systems in place to monitor on mass our telecommunications and financial dealings, all in the name of our security, I find it all very creepy.


Edited by psilomonkey (09/28/05 11:03 AM)


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4725072 - 09/28/05 01:46 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Minority Report


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4725183 - 09/28/05 02:07 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I mean your talking about a country that has to pay outsiders to fight there wars for them ( the French Foreign Legion)



You believe they ought to build up a huge military in exchange for the slashing domestic funding, huh? I never understood the mass hysteria and xenophobia regarding the frogs. Freedom fries. Whoo!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: TheDude]
    #4725521 - 09/28/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

> What the hell is the point of installing so many cameras under the pretext of counterterrorism if they don't actually benefit the situation?

They certainly help figure out what happened after the fact. Keeping log files on a computer doesn't help stop a hacker from getting into a system, but they certainly help figure out what the hacker did after getting into the system.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #4725531 - 09/28/05 03:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
The French, who owe there entire existence and culture to the United States (cause we kicked the Germans out in WW2)



Payback for the French helping to kick the English out of the U.S.? It could reasonably be argued that were it not for France, there would be no U.S..

Quote:

I mean your talking about a country that has to pay outsiders to fight there wars for them ( the French Foreign Legion)



I understand that the U.S. Federal government is considering fast tracking foreigners to become U.S. citizens if they sign up to serve in our armed forces (seeing as Bush's command has destroyed morale and has resulted in trouble retaining and recruiting people for our armed forces).


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4725547 - 09/28/05 03:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilomonkey said:
In addition to this they have already have systems in place to monitor on mass our telecommunications and financial dealings, all in the name of our security, I find it all very creepy.




I've been reading about ECHELON and PROMIS lately and that stuff definitely gives me the willies. If those systems are capable of doing a fraction of what I've read then I can't for the life of me fathom that the events of 9/11 were unexpected. It either went two ways: all of these advanced security measures are flawed and don't work at all or they work perfectly and the attacks were allowed to happen to further an agenda. And I find it damn hard to believe that all these systems are flawed given that politicians continue ramping up installation of such invasive devices.


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: Seuss]
    #4725595 - 09/28/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> What the hell is the point of installing so many cameras under the pretext of counterterrorism if they don't actually benefit the situation?

They certainly help figure out what happened after the fact.  Keeping log files on a computer doesn't help stop a hacker from getting into a system, but they certainly help figure out what the hacker did after getting into the system.




So essentially you're saying all this extra "security" isn't going to stop attacks but merely let us know who perpetrated the acts.  Gee golly, I sure do feel safer now :blush:.  I realize terror prevention is just about impossible without truly invasive measures but I can't help but feel these security systems are more detrimental to the public than any terrorist.  Maybe I'm bit paranoid but I strongly dislike the fact that my every action can be monitored as I go about my day.


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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OfflineThe14thWarrior
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Registered: 09/28/05
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Re: France Proposes New Anti-Terror Laws [Re: TheDude]
    #4727869 - 09/28/05 11:46 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It always starts with the best of intentions. "It'll keep us safer!", they claim. Safer than what, I'd ask. Does France still have a big problem with terrorism? Even the Algerians seem to have calmed down in that country. So they put them up for some great imagined public benefit. Then they start using them for other crimes since they are there anyway. Then it's a police state.


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