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Pixie1420 said:
There's a modified pf tek somewhere here.

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Drink_Punk_Soda said:
PF Cakes do not include straw OR dung. Go read the PF Tek for Simple Minds. (That's not an insult, that's actually what it's called.)

PF cakes include brown rice flower, vermiculite, and water.

You can make casings spawned with pf cakes that include straw and/or dung, but you sure don't put those things in jars.

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Drink_Punk_Soda said:
You CAN NOT inject spores into dung and expect it to grow. It just won't happen. If that's what you did, the only thing you'll get is mold.

Also, did you pastuerize the dung and/or straw? If not, the only thing you'll get is mold.

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QbanMoJo said:
nice. that was the flush u got off all those jars u showed? cause what Im trying to say is that dung is good but not better than grains, unless u are doing bulk. grains will just yield more per sq. ft.

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Where did you get that info ? I'd like to read it.

Won't the substrate with the most and best nutrients yield the most ?

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
Hippie Chick 

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HippieChick said:
You're right. No

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
Hippie Chick 

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QbanMoJo said:

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HippieChick said:
You're right. No

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
Hippie Chick 

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ok. so why not just innoc straight poo if its more nutritious then grains? and dont say for colonizing times since time isnt an issue for u.

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Now you're thinking + 5 for you.

That would be the ultimate goal.

Although colonizing times aren't an issue with me, unfortunately, it could become an issue with the jars. They might dry up, who knows ?

I'm sure I'll find out,lol.

I started with this ratio because I felt sure it would work out to some degree.

I'll increase the amount of poo untill it has a negative effect.

The poo really sucks up the LC. Colonization starts in fewer spots then with shaken jars of grain. The grains actually seem to colonize first then spread to the poo. It really speeds up then.

Eliminating all the grains may really affect colonizing. Along with the ability to shake the jars. They almost roll around the jars now

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
Hippie Chick 

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ADoobie said:
Hippie, if the LC was made from shrooms fruited from grains, could that be the reason it hits the grains first - they are already adapted to it, and it takes another day or two to get used to the poo?





Could be, not sure. Lc was started from a vendors syringe.





Also HC, I am surprised you have had such problems with poo. On AFOAF's first try his cat made 8 perfect 16qt poo bins (before casings) - no contams at all. And how come you don't want to blend in the verm? That doesn't make much sense to me (and I ask these questions because I know you are "in the know" in mushie cultivation)...






So were mine. I use 16 quart,











how many do I need ,lol, these are waiting to be cleaned






Think about it this way. Say you want to make 5 bins of poo. You want 12qts each. Walmart sells many different sized tubs for $1.99 (8qt, 12qt, 16qt etc). Just get yourself some 16qt tubs. Okay, so you set aside the 5 tubs worth of poo. Now, you say you don't want to mix in verm bc it lacks nutes. But if you are starting with x nutes, and mix in verm, you still have x nutes. Whats the loss? Not only have you improved the consistency of your bulk, but you have also added a shitload of water capacity. Whats the loss? The only thing I can think of that is going through your mind is that the added water will bring larger shrooms that were started from x nutes, thereby decreasing potency gram for gram.

So the question is, is the added water serving to take better advantage of the nutrients at hand to create more mushies, thereby increasing your magic production - or is it just thinning it out?

My guess is that it would capitalize your production. But even in the case that it just thins it out, judging by your scale of operations - is that such a bad thing? Either way an eighth of these mofo's is gunna knock some hippie's eyes to the back of their socket.






The loss is space. It takes roughly 16 quarts to make the equivalent of a 5 pound bag of Tenn. Stud. That's a lot of PC'ing,




even for me,lol.



I just want it all to be nutritious matter. The WBS and Rye give it the texture instead of the verm.
Just thought if I could accomplish the same goal with a source of nutrients, why not ?





Final thought - why not add straw to your poo? It does a far better job (IMHO) than verm at increasing consistency of substrate. It is fibrous, is connected (three inch, or even two inch pieces are easy for myc to colonize) and when the myc hits the straw, it runs like a mofo once it gets on the path. As a result, your inoculation points are spread like wildfire through your substrate. After all, the poo is surrounding the straw so it is like a exponential inoculation utility, that increases spawn run rate, makes a lighter and fluffier substrate, and, hey, it's nute rich unlike verm.





I don't think I'd like straw. It isn't really all that nutritious, is it ? Not sure.





FOAF adds verm to his h/poo, which, as a blessing, is already a magical mixture of straw/poo that has been chomped into two-inch pieces by a horse. Damn. Nature took all the work out of it for him . Only problem with straw/poo on it's own is that it can compact, despite it's fluffy nature, if the bin is set or bumped too hard. The verm takes care of that problem, adding a very nice support structure while holding much needed water for flushing.

One last last question. How do you pasteurize? If you do it the way I think you are, AFOAF knows a way that just might turn you around to near %100 success ratio.

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Like this,





Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
Hippie Chick 

I was thinking about the benefit of the moisture from verm, would be nice to have. Since I'll have 100% colonized sub., maybe I could mix some moistened verm in with it when I case it. Maybe even nuke it first. Then I could have my cake and eat it too,lol.

When I birth my jars, I put a butterknife, wiped with alcohol, inside a 1/2 gallon zip-lock bag. I wipe the neck of the jar with alcohol, unscrew the lid(jar upside down) and slide the jar into the bag. Wrap the bag around the neck of the jar and cut the sub. into pieces that fall out. Close the bag, pull the I.D. tag off the jar and stick on the zip lock. Then I break em all up. Couldn't I add some sterilized verm. at this point without too much of a risk ?

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HippieChick said:

The loss is space. It takes roughly 16 quarts to make the equivalent of a 5 pound bag of Tenn. Stud. I just want it all to be nutritious matter. The WBS and Rye give it the texture instead of the verm.
Just thought if I could accomplish the same goal with a source of nutrients, why not ?


When I am talking about (positive) texture, I am talking a fluffy and porous structure to the substrate. Correct me if I am wrong, but verm is much fluffier and porous than grains. When it comes to talking about the texture of the substrate, aren't we looking for something that increases the myc's ability to run during spawn? That would be an airy, fluffy, light and non-compacted space. Grains seem least optimal to me. Doesn't seem to me like you can accomplish the same thing by adding grains - plus verm as you know will hold and release more water than those grains...



I don't think I'd like straw. It isn't really all that nutritious, is it ? Not sure.


Well, I am always open to corrections, but I am almost certain that the order of nutes is as such:
WBS > RYE > STRAW > POO
So...IF thats true, you might want to re-think that option.

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Like this,


Thats what I thought. Now, I know many people have much success with that. But if you are having troubles; AFOAF went to walmart and bought a 20qt General Electric Turkey Roaster for $28. It has a temperature control nob that can go from 150 - 400, and a removable inner liner. After leeching and drying, he puts poo in a bin and breaks up to powder, and as I said - it already has straw (but you can add some). So anyhow it's poo-dirt mixed with straw. He likes this because he can fit a lot of the poo (read: nutes) into the 20qt cooker when it is all broken into this dirt like state. After breaking it up by hand, he grabs the inner-liner to the turkey roaster (TR), and fills it about %80 of the way. Then he fills it to the top with verm for an %80/%20 ratio. Then he dumps it all into a pillowcase, and shakes the shit out of it to mix it up. He twists the pillow case at the VERY top as little as possible, and snaps a rubber band to hold it. This way the mix has a lot of room to spread out. He puts 3 gallons of distilled water ($3 at grocery store), turns TR to 400F. The lid that it comes with has two holes in the top. both are the perfect size for one of those small meat thermometers that are spiked with the round flat dial on top. He sticks that through the lid, and waits till the water gets to 120. Then he puts the pillowcase in there, spreads it out, puts two 1qt canning jars filled with water (sealed/closed lid) on top (somehow this TR fits this like magic) to hold the pillowcase under the water. Adds water to bring level above pillowcase (about another half gallon). Turns temp knob up to 225. Sounds high, but in about 10 minutes the temp is in the 140 range. He walks away from it for two hours, and when he comes back the temp is in the 160 range. He pulls the pillowcase out, ties the top of it around a tree branch in a knot, and leaves it overnight (while the temps are generally cooler). In the morning (before about 11am) he dumps the bag into two 18qt bins. The substrate is an amazingly perfect moisture, totally wonderful to touch.


When I birth my jars, I put a butterknife, wiped with alcohol, inside a 1/2 gallon zip-lock bag. I wipe the neck of the jar with alcohol, unscrew the lid(jar upside down) and slide the jar into the bag. Wrap the bag around the neck of the jar and cut the sub. into pieces that fall out. Close the bag, pull the I.D. tag off the jar and stick on the zip lock. Then I break em all up.

Damn it girl. He uses WBS to spawn. When they are still in the jar, before he even opens them he shakes the shit out of them or gives them a good couple of knocks into the carpet. Opens them up and dumps them into bins of poo that he just emptied the pillow case into. Washes his hands with some regular bar of soap (doesn't even know what kind it is), and digs in to mix it up. lol he loves to play with it...it just feels so PERFECT.

Couldn't I add some sterilized verm. at this point without too much of a risk ?

Perhaps...But here I must submit to one with more experience. I really don't know about the risk involved with that. Sounds good...

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You know, I only mention my FOAF's method because it works without fail so far. I know everyone has their own way of doing shit...thats what makes this forum so fun. I just hope it gives you some ideas.

Peace girl.

'Doobers

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Warrior14 said:
Spores don't germinate well on plain straw and cow manure, that could be one problem.

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blackout said:

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Warrior14 said:
Spores don't germinate well on plain straw and cow manure, that could be one problem.

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I have heard this too. I would like to see people try it though, I think some experienced growers here said it can be done. If you leave the dung and straw a bit dry you can add lots of LC, I have had great success using lots of LC.

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Warrior14 said:
Not to be contradictory, but for spawn, nothing beats a brown rice / vermiculite cake and a cheese grater

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