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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

Registered: 09/07/05
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Adding H2O2 to grain soak
    #4717113 - 09/26/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I was wondering, would adding H2O2 to your grain soak be benificial? My thought lines go along that it could help kill off some of the endospores, but I'm not quite sure if it would harm the grain nutrition...


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4717191 - 09/26/05 11:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No, it wouldn't do anything. There's no reason you shouldn't be having nearly 100% success rate with grains providing that you pressure cook them.


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4717250 - 09/26/05 11:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Green mold multiple times. Planning an increase to 90 minute pc.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4717323 - 09/26/05 11:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'd look at your inoculation procedure then. I only PC for 45 minutes, so I can't imagine bumping it up to 90 minutes changing much.


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InvisibleThePerspective
EuphoricFantasia

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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4718019 - 09/27/05 01:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Gloves and shower beforehand. Cleanroom wiped in bleach with no airflow, wearing a mask. Double needle flaming and alcohol wiped before every jar. inoculation spot wiped with Tyvek. H2O2 liquid culture. Transfered in sterile glove box right to incubator.

I'm told 90 minutes to ensure endospores are fried.


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Offlinedonkey_lipz
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: ThePerspective]
    #4718369 - 09/27/05 03:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i heard that green is introduced during inoculation most the time. buy a huge can of lysol and soak everything in your clean room. soak it till even you cant breath, then get a can of lysol air disinfectant and lock the trigger down so its like a bug bomb of cleanliness. if you wiped everything down with bleach, its not as effective as a bleach/water solution.


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OfflinePooGrower
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: donkey_lipz]
    #4718414 - 09/27/05 03:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This coming froma guy who wants to eat SHIT CAKES


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Offlinedonkey_lipz
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: PooGrower]
    #4718460 - 09/27/05 03:53 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

atleast they arent contaminated :wink: LoLZ :laugh:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4718638 - 09/27/05 06:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Holydiver said:
I'd look at your inoculation procedure then. I only PC for 45 minutes, so I can't imagine bumping it up to 90 minutes changing much.




If they are large jars 90mins or more may be needed for the heat to penetrate to the centre. You could simmer for a short while and leave them to soak overnight to germinate some endospores.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: blackout]
    #4718723 - 09/27/05 07:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
If they are large jars 90mins or more may be needed for the heat to penetrate to the centre. You could simmer for a short while and leave them to soak overnight to germinate some endospores.




Heh, I don't exactly use pint jars here, so that was already taken into consideration. A 45 min PC cycle is sufficient for quart jars.

This endospore business is way overplayed. You don't need to soak to "hatch endospores", actually I don't soak period, anymore. I'm trying to tell you guys that a 40 minute simmer and 45 minute PC cycle is all you need for 100% success with WBS.

The source of contamination must be from 1) spore source 2) bad liquid culture or 3) inoculation procedure. WBS is super simple, don't make it over complicated by soaking for days and PC'ing for 90 minutes here, but to each his own I suppose.


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4718725 - 09/27/05 07:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, thats good news. I'm exactly what you are making fun of. I soak for 24 hrs, simmer for 30 and pc for 90. I'm glad to hear that its unnecessary, but why does everyone on here suggest it?


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InvisibleJackTackle
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #4718788 - 09/27/05 09:10 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnjohnandjamal said:
Wow, thats good news.  I'm exactly what you are making fun of.  I soak for 24 hrs, simmer for 30 and pc for 90.  I'm glad to hear that its unnecessary, but why does everyone on here suggest it?




better to be safe than sorry :crazy2:


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4719248 - 09/27/05 12:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Holydiver said:
This endospore business is way overplayed. You don't need to soak to "hatch endospores", actually I don't soak period, anymore.



I agree. I think the soaking benefits more because the grain going into the PC is already full hydrated (rather than endospore germination). When you are PCing it takes a bit longer for the grain to fully absorb the water and get into the very centre of the grain. If the inner grain structure is still dry then it is similar to a dry heat trying to sterilize the grain. WBS is a very small grain so the water will penetrate quicker than it will with rye.

People also talk of "bad batches" of grain, with unusually high endospore counts. It is mentioned in TMC that such grain should be PCd for far longer times. I think some people do a/c bags for up to 3 hours!

Germinating the endospores is similar to what happens in fractional sterilization though. And I am sitting on 500g+ of wet shrooms that tell me microwave fractional sterilization does work. Anno doesnt soak either.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Adding H2O2 to grain soak [Re: Holydiver]
    #4720900 - 09/27/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think endospores are overplayed at all. They do exist, and they are hard to kill. Obviously they can be killed without soaking, but
Quote:

WBS is super simple, don't make it over complicated by soaking for days and PC'ing for 90 minutes here, but to each his own I suppose.



I actually find that soaking is less complicated than simmering. Like you say, to each his own, but soaking requires no user intervention, unlike simmering. So far as I'm concerned, the soaking step takes only 2 minutes while the simmering step takes 40-ish.

Regardless, there are many ways to tackle this subject, I was really addressing the "why does everybody recomend it" question as much as anything. To show that there are valid reasons, but it's ok to do it however works best for you.

Oh, and blackout, I often pc bags for 5 hours! (if the pc is absolutely packed full to the brim that is, we're talking about 40+ pounds of dry grain in there, it's quite a heat sink!)


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