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OfflineMavrick127
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Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 33
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Long term effects of 'Shrooms?
    #471701 - 11/27/01 11:13 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Ever since I ate my first eigth of 'shrooms I have been wanting to do more. I recently started cultivating my own shrooms and want to trip once in a while.
I did a lot of research and couldnt come up with any long term effects of shrooms, only flashbacks. Are there long term effects besides flashbacks??


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Mavrick127]
    #471710 - 11/27/01 11:17 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

uhhh, u change if u do alot, i did a bit too much the first time, next day i was changed, i was more relaxed and not hyper, just not tryin to be kool or nothin. i got paranoid, waaaaaaaaaaay paranoid. and the flashbacks arent that big of a deal, the walls bleed sometimes.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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OfflineSpidey
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Mavrick127]
    #471741 - 11/27/01 11:39 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Heavy abuse of Serotoninergic Drugs can potentiate depressive episodes due to a sustained decrease in serotonin.

Doesn't happen to everyone. But if someone has a predisposition for depression, psychedelics can compound it.

I had this happen to me. BUT, I was taking LSD once a week, and up to 3 times a week, off and on for almost 3 years. And was taking all sorts of other drugs at that time too.

Not permanent. And after discontinuing usage, it went away over time.

Good rule of thumb; too much of anything ain't a good idea.

Other than that, there aren't really any medically confirmed long term side effects. That is unless you already suffer from a pre-exisiting psychotic disorder.

Of course, as with anything, different people react differently, and your mileage may vary.

As far as Flashbacks, there are differing opinions in the professional community as well as among users, on whether there really is such a thing. Perhaps its possible, but I've never had one and I've never known anyone who has. although, sure, while I was using LSD chronically, I'd catch a trail out of the corner of my eye while sober. But when you're using LSD weekly and many other drugs daily, is there really such a thing as being sober??

Everything in moderation.






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OfflineCOZMKSTRCHLD
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Registered: 11/19/01
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Mavrick127]
    #471766 - 11/27/01 11:59 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

LONG TERM PROGNOSIS IS INSANITY. THE ALCHEMIND SOCIETY WILL GIVE YOU DIRECTION. ALL I CAN SAY, FROM MY VIEW, IS , GET ON THE BUS AND STAY ON, OR GET OFF.


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: COZMKSTRCHLD]
    #471803 - 11/28/01 12:27 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

ive always been on the bus, so i got nothin to loose.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleKid
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #471862 - 11/28/01 01:23 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

> Heavy abuse of Serotoninergic Drugs can potentiate depressive episodes due to a sustained decrease in serotonin.

BZZ. Wrong. Sustained decrease of serotonin does not cause depression; it may be caused by depression. What is also odd is that low serotonin levels may last for weeks after the end of a major depressive episode.

Change your etiology, but I have no objection to the claim that hallucinogens may cause depression.

> But if someone has a predisposition for depression, psychedelics can compound it.

What is a predisposition to depression? Where is your evidence that such an internal factor exists?

> Good rule of thumb; too much of anything ain't a good idea.

Wow, really? Causing yourself harm is a bad idea huh?

> That is unless you already suffer from a pre-exisiting psychotic disorder.

Schizophrenics who take hallucinogens don't end up in worse shape.

> Everything in moderation.

Were you reading my OTD thread before this?


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Offlineegolesss
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Mavrick127]
    #471891 - 11/28/01 01:52 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

I've never had any bad effects from shrooms, 10 years of use and I have used them when my mind was ready for a trip and never regreted any of them..LSD caused some flashbacks, paranoia and depression, Mushrooms on the other hand have led me to revelations, and self improvement...Don't abuse them and they won't abuse you.......


--------------------
Going crazy will drive you mad, but once you get there the rest is easy....All spores are not created equal!!!!!!!!!!! Sporeworks, Hawkseye, PF, they are completely viable with very strong genetics.




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Offlinefelix
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: egolesss]
    #471978 - 11/28/01 04:20 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

i think i read somewhere that long term use of shrooms advances the aging process...not sure if all organs or just one are affected.
short-term, i usually feel pretty mellow about things


--------------------
Real botanists laugh at HPS systems, we do however use high pressure sodium in the parking lot. - artthug


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OfflineSir Tokes-A-Lot
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Kid]
    #471990 - 11/28/01 04:33 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

do you have to prove EVERYONE wrong about EVERYTHING?


--------------------


"If god liked midgets, he woulda made 'em come on stilts."- ChemicalMonkey (The Early Years)


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OfflineSpidey
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Kid]
    #472084 - 11/28/01 07:42 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

>>>Sustained decrease of serotonin does not cause depression; it may be caused by depression.<<<

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
We can argue over this all day and not get anywhere. Still evidence does exist to show that SSRI's do help is many cases of depression, lending to the notion that low levels of serotonin and depression are highly correlated.

>>>What is a predisposition to depression? Where is your evidence that such an internal factor exists?<<<

Family history. Many mental illnesses may be genetic. When visiting a psychiatrist, most will ask for a family history.

>>>Wow, really? Causing yourself harm is a bad idea huh?<<<

And your sarcasm is necessary because..............??

>>>Schizophrenics who take hallucinogens don't end up in worse shape.<<<

Perhaps. Yet hallucinagens may still help potentiate psychosis in someone who destined to turn out that way. This is all PSY 101 shit, we're not talking quantum physics here.

>>>Were you reading my OTD thread before this?<<<

No, I haven't. A good read, huh?

:)



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InvisibleKid
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #472339 - 11/28/01 02:38 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

> lending to the notion that low levels of serotonin and depression are highly correlated.

Yes, and what is said about correlation. Correlation does not imply causation.

> Family history. Many mental illnesses may be genetic.

His discordance rates between adopted, monozygotic twins in which one has schizophrenia clearly point to the importance of environmental factors even in psychotic disorders. Other disorders, such as PTSD, clearly rely much more on environmental influences. What may be inherited is a genetic sensitivity to social stress but by no means an increased likelihood of getting a given mental disorder.
It's may be that you're (biologically) predisposed to being sensitive to external stress than you are biologically predisposed to, say, depression.

> Yet hallucinagens may still help potentiate psychosis in someone who destined to turn out that way.

"May." But the simple fact is that we have no way of predicting who will develop schizophrenia (or any other psychotic disorder, or any other mental illness) and thus there's not enough evidence to conclude that because person X took LSD and became schizophrenic afterwards that he would have become schizophrenic without having taken LSD.

> No, I haven't. A good read, huh?

It's just that you said "everything in moderation", which was the title of a post of mine in which I criticized that very sentence for not being helpful.


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OfflineSpidey
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Kid]
    #472340 - 11/28/01 02:40 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

>>>BZZ. Wrong. Sustained decrease of serotonin does not cause depression<<<

Note, I never used the word "cause". I said potentiate. So don't put words in my mouth please.

Anyway, here's some quick references I grabbed;

"The serotoninergic system is known to modulate mood, emotion, sleep and appetite and thus is implicated in the control of numerous behavioural and physiological functions. Decreased serotoninergic neurotransmission has been proposed to play a key role in the aetiology of depression"
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/serotonin.htm

"Tryptophan depletion has been used extensively in research into depression and has shown that, in patients receiving an SSRI whose depression is in remission, depleting serotonin leads to recurrence of the disorder. "
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ssrimech.htm

http://www.mastermind1.com/wwwfreelance/SAD/index20.htm

Anyhow, before you rudely accuse someone of being wrong, do alittle research.

I'm not saying you're wrong in your statements, but neither am I in my statement.

Thanks, Spidey.

:)


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OfflineSpidey
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Kid]
    #472351 - 11/28/01 02:50 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Hey,

>>>Yes, and what is said about correlation. Correlation does not imply causation. <<<

True. However, I did not use the word "cause".

>>>It's may be that you're (biologically) predisposed to being sensitive to external stress than you are biologically predisposed to, say, depression. <<<

True. Extreneous varibles do play into it. In the "nature, nurture" debate, I lean towards "nature".

But yeah, there are more factors than just serotonin that determine depression. Some people find SSRIs to be ineffective treatments. Thus serotonin is not always the key.

>>>thus there's not enough evidence to conclude that because person X took LSD and became schizophrenic afterwards that he would have become schizophrenic without having taken LSD. <<<

True, hind sight can be 20/20 or a blinder. The point I was making is that psychedelics *could* potentiate an underlying condition.

>>>It's just that you said "everything in moderation", which was the title of a post of mine in which I criticized that very sentence for not being helpful. <<<

Perhaps you don't find it to be helpful. Words over the internet rarely are helpful. But I do believe those are words to live by. Not that I always do. Sometimes the senses are better enjoyed in excess.

Take care, gotta run, (at work)

-Spidey.




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Anonymous

Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #472357 - 11/28/01 02:57 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

thats right spidey, stand up to the man


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InvisibleKid
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #472487 - 11/28/01 05:15 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

> Note, I never used the word "cause". I said potentiate. So don't put words in my mouth please.

What you said was:
"Heavy abuse of Serotoninergic Drugs can potentiate depressive episodes due to a sustained decrease in serotonin."
Which is equivalent to saying that these drugs can increase depression caused by a decrease in serotonin. So what you said was equivalent to cause, even though you didn't specifically use that word.

I'll break it right apart for you:
"Heavy abuse of Serotoninergic Drugs can potentiate depressive episodes..."
meaning: 'heavy abuse of Serotonergic Drugs can make more potent depressive episodes'

"...due to a sustained decrease in serotonin."
meaning 'caused by decreased serotonin.'

So yes, what you said was: 'Heavy abuse of Serotonergic Drugs can worsen depressive episodes caused by decreased serotonin.'

> Anyhow, before you rudely accuse someone of being wrong, do alittle research.

I have done research. I've taken courses about stuff like this. So, don't tell me I haven't done "a little" research.

f/ "Culture and Mental Illness: A Client-Centered Approach" by Richard J. Castillo (a pupil of Arthur Kleinmann)

"Among the reasons for change in underlying theory is that after thousands of studies and many millions of dollars spent on research, the laboratory confirmation of specific brain diseases as the underlying causes of the hundreds of mental disorders in DSM-IV has not arrived as expected. Of course, numerous brain abnormalities have been found to be correlated with various mental disorders, but none of them have been confirmed as causing the mental disorders." p.10

"...in the case of major depression, studies have found abnormalities in neurotransmitters associated with depression, but the relationships involve several neurotransmitters in complex interactions that are not yet fully understood. As a result, researchers now generally agree that no single neurotransmitter system is involved in a specific and isolated manner with major depression. And again, these abnormalities could be the effects of depression and not the cause." p. 10

"Furthermore, DSM-IV goes on to state, "Most laboratory abnormalities are state dependent (i.e., affected by the presence or absence of depressive symptoms), but some findings may precede the onset of the episode or persist after its remission"" p.11

from DSM-IV-TR, by the APA, for Major Depressive Episode
"Associated laboratory findings. No laboratory findings that are diagnostic of a Major Depressive Episode have been identified." p. 352

> True. However, I did not use the word "cause".

No, but you implied causation. The meaning of what you said was pointing to causation.

> The point I was making is that psychedelics *could* potentiate an underlying condition.

Fine, but please understand that since you didn't say that, I picked at the point.



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OfflineSpidey
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Kid]
    #472803 - 11/28/01 09:27 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

>>>I've taken courses about stuff like this. So, don't tell me I haven't done "a little" research. <<<

Good, good. Psy is interesting stuff.

Myself, I have a Bachlor of Science degree in Psychology. Graduated 4 years ago. Went into Sales instead. (go figure.)

In the future, when posting, I'll mind my semantics. Dam near every arguement via the internet boils down to semanitcs.

I see we come from different schools of thought. That's good. I prefer the company of those who differ from me in thought more than those who are more similar to me in thought.

It's been a pleasure talkin' to ya. I look forward to butting heads again sometime.

peace :)

-Spidey.


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InvisibleKid
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #472866 - 11/28/01 10:17 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Actually it was anthropology (psychiatric antrhopology, but we still went over the biopsychosocial perspective)

Peace though.

Kid


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Spidey]
    #473047 - 11/29/01 12:55 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

It is my understanding that not all hallucinogens cause depletion of serotonin.

MDMA, yes, because it causes a release (more like a flood, I guess) of serotonin. The serotonin get's released, broken down, and it's gone. So you end up with decreased levels.

Hallucinogens like LSD and psilocybin (tryptamines), however, are structurally similar to serotonin. They "take the place" of serotonin in the brain, and bind to 5-HT sites on neurons (as well as histamine, ACh, dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine sites). Some evidence actually points to this class of drugs blocking the serotonin pathways in the brain (meaning less serotonin is used).

So no. I don't think LSD and psilocybin (and the rest of the tryptamine hallucinogens) cause depletion of serotonin levels.

A good read is "Postulated Mechanisms of LSD", linked here:
http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~ivl/writing/non_fiction/lsd/

It's a little technical, but an excellent read.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: trendal]
    #473166 - 11/29/01 02:51 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

At the end of the day, if substances like sugar, caffeine and nicotine can effect brain chemistry, you'd have to infer that psilocin will too...


--------------------


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Long term effects of 'Shrooms? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #473186 - 11/29/01 03:12 AM (15 years, 15 days ago)

I didn't say that it doesn't effect brain chemistry. I said that it doesn't (or at least appears to not) deplete serotonin levels.

Of COURSE it changes brain chemistry (be it temporary or permanent...i lean towards temporary). If you want to compare it to sugar, caffeine, and nicotine...well then you might as well say that everything changes brain chemistry. You reading this post, right now, is changing your brain chemistry.

I still stand by my statement: tryptamine hallucinogens don't deplete serotonin.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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