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Offlinestemmer
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J. Coltrane on acid
    #4716368 - 09/26/05 08:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

John coltrane thought that he could channel a form of god through his saxophone after useing enough acid(it is indeed a fact that he did the drug often(and shrooms)). He felt like the unmoved mover would play through him. His math skills amoung other things present in his music, to John never felt like they exclusively belonged to him. Like Einstein and his feelings about his theories.
Is music the streight shot toward true enlightenment by more finite powers than that of the logic-seeking self. Ive had the SAME exact experience as he. Once I got good way too fast, the best stuff I played was far beyond my capability. There is some ability to organize finite information like musical notes in time, and its organizer is real and does not belong to us(Experienced during improvisation). This "thing" is mighty intelligent and resembles a platform for the voice experienced by some on mushrooms. Any thoughts on this organizational capability of the human mind even as it pertains to the fractal memory.
This stuff always blew my mind because it takes a logical approach to something so very weird and at first seemigly mystical.


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OfflineWillieTomg
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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: stemmer]
    #4716416 - 09/26/05 09:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Hell, that's just his mind interpreting a form of ego loss. What he's experiencing is a removal of at least some of the layers of the built-up psychological baggage around the pure self. With practice, it's possible to enter that spot at will. You can do anything there when you're in touch with the purest part of what the religious among us would call "your soul."

It's like being born again. You become in touch with yourself, and by extension, the collective consciousness. You can do ANYTHING in that state. That's the mental peace that Shaolin monks, and Tai Chi masters seek their entire lives. Every move you make can become more precise, every thought becomes sharp and quick. Senses are augmented and even if you don't see something you can still just sense it just from the input of your other four senses.

I've never really understood even the basics of how music is made (although I like it a lot), but I can imagine that the music one could make in this state would be FORMIDABLE. And it's more than possible how Coltrane interpreted his tapping into this source (every mind uses different imagery.)


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Battles of wits are impossible with the unarmed.


Edited by WillieTomg (09/26/05 09:11 PM)


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4716519 - 09/26/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Thats the point, I like your steep logical slopes, and they are not too slippery. I and he beleived in the collective unconsciouse because of this. The musical scale is defined by finite things like how many notes there are, as time is also finite, (yet in physics time is varient). Also, this hallucinogenic state, in the minds who have fully experiences and re-experienced it, can easily be understood and thus the powers can be harnessed during sober cognition and musical improvisation.
I would go so far as to say, that is where the metaphysical truth meets the more typical mind. SOme people who have never done hallucinogens can clearly hear what coltrane or ravi shankar are "Saying" when they improvise. What they say includes the entire spectrum of thoughts feelings and emotions within all people.


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: stemmer]
    #4716779 - 09/26/05 10:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Not many people here like jazz I take it, i just hope this interesting talk doesnt die off too quickly into the oblivion of a search page.


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OfflineWillieTomg
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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: stemmer]
    #4719606 - 09/27/05 01:55 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Ditto.  This kind of discussion is something that I've seen a lot of people--nevermind psychadelic enthusiasts-- be interested in.  Musicians (especially the improvosational kind) can relate to it.  Martial arts practicioners know what I speak of when I talk about it. Hell, I've even talked with STAR WARS fans who can relate. 

Consider; The Force.  Just like Chi, or the collective unconsious, the  Force is described as "an energy field that surrounds all living things, binds us together, infused into all life."  The Jedi use the force through an internal peace, allowing the Force to guide their actions.  Earlier in the year I posted that one time, when playing a Beirut game while tripping it was like the ball flew through the air, landed in the cup, and then left my hand.  I didn't think about it.  I COULDN'T think about it.  I just knew internally what was right, and let my instincts take over my actions. 

I genuinely feel like this is a perfect example of why psychadelics should be legalized, even if only for research purposes.  LSD, shrooms, salvia, DMT, DXM, whatever your vector of choice is, it can all take you to the same place.  I feel like with enough research we could open up a whole new realm of human self-awareness through the use of these substances. 

(P.S.  While I'm not prone to using extended Star Wars analogies when talking about anything, let alone controlled substances, I'm just trying to display my thinking from as many angles as I can.  Besides, don't front that Star Wars isn't the shit.  You know you love it too... :starwars:


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4719818 - 09/27/05 02:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Reminds me of one time I played a basketball game at a state fair, we were there to see DSO. Anyway, I was spun pretty good on 2 or 3 doses, and I took one shot and nailed it. I couldn't have missed.

Any hoo, could you recommend some Coltrane for me?

Also, read Phil Lesh's book that came out this year...he goes into all types of musical influences, jazz especially, and also has much experience playing while tripping. Very good book.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: mockeylock]
    #4720829 - 09/27/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

the classic coltrane tripping album is, of course:

_a love supreme_


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: gnrm23]
    #4720906 - 09/27/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm on it.  Thank you very much. :craven:


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: gnrm23]
    #4721031 - 09/27/05 06:31 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I can definately fit another album on a cd. Suggestions???

While were on the subject, talk to me about some miles davis. Which albums do you love? Anyone....?


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: WillieTomg]
    #4721314 - 09/27/05 07:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

WillieTomg said:
Besides, don't front that Star Wars isn't the shit.  You know you love it too... :starwars:




Starwars is so fucking terrible.

The original concept was lame enough. Sure, the Special FX were good, but come on! The movie is fucking retarded!

THEN it gets SOLD OUT and REGURGITATED into MORE movies and then into even MORE BOOKS.

Its so sick how Geroge Lucas has so many multi-media absorbed fuckers sucking on his nuts.



....I apologize for being so negative. You mentioned that Star Wars was the shit, and you even assumed that I loved it to.

I just want you to know I fucking hate it.


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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: LazyCrash]
    #4721397 - 09/27/05 07:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

coltrane is my favorite anything to listen to. i did listen to meditations once when on acid. i remember how the music strikingly resembled the random sounds of nature.it was like listening to a forest or jungle.
i listened to love supreme on mushrooms. it was so awesome. that time i really was hit by the intensity of mcoy tynors piano playing.
once i put on 'dear old stokholm' on a mushroom come up (before i realized what the come up was) and it was too intense, i had to turn it off, but thats just the come up, i should have known better.
coltrane was divinely touched imho, but what i also love about him was how driven he was towards his own personal enlightment and search for God.


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OfflineWillieTomg
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Re: J. Coltrane on acid [Re: LazyCrash]
    #4721444 - 09/27/05 08:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

....I apologize for being so negative. You mentioned that Star Wars was the shit, and you even assumed that I loved it to.

I just want you to know I fucking hate it.




Well, as long as I communicated the message then I suppose s'all good. I was just trying to find another good metaphor for a decidedly... complex state of mind. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. However much I disagree witih it.


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