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EntheogenicPeace
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: grischnackh]
#12899504 - 07/14/10 06:29 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Some relevant info. while it’s still fresh…
Nucleophilic attack of the P in a phosphate won’t happen directly because the steric hindrance is too great, especially given the tetrahedral geometry. To illustrate this, in the first step of glycolysis, glucose is converted to glucose 6-phosphate (phosphate courtesy of ATP ) by the enzyme hexokinase. The mechanism is nucleophilic attack of the P by the hydroxyl group at carbon 6, but only due to Mg2+ serving as an enzymatic cofactor to disperse the negative charge on the O atoms, making it possible. So outside the cell (sitting in a shot glass usually in our case), this rxn isn’t going to happen.
A related mechanism is the conversion of glutamate to glutamine. Here, after the phosphorylation at the COO- occurs (again courtesy of ATP), a small polar molecule (in this case NH3) does a nucleophilic attack at the C, displacing an inorganic phosphate. However, in psilocybin, the adjacent C is part of the benzene ring (of the indole), so I don’t know how easily it lends itself to such a rxn (using –OH here instead of ammonia as psilocin has this functional group off the benzene.) Wikipedia says this dephosphorylation occurs under conditions that are either strongly acidic or basic. Not knowing much about chemistry far on the basic side of things, I don’t know how practical this would be considering it needs to be drank.
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ServantOfBaphomet
StarKitten's Boyfriend


Registered: 10/14/09
Posts: 2,986
Loc: αßπΣσµτΦΘΩδ∞
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Next week, I will juice my fresh limes like I always do to make my kratom/pod tea. I will use some of this juice to make a concoction of an amount of dry cubensis.
How much should I do? Would you all say that for the intensity of trip, that fresh lemon/lime juice doubles the effects?
I usually eat 3 grams or more, depending on where I am, but I am not really into fast tryptamine come-ups anymore, which is why I eat dmt nowadays instead of smoke it.
-------------------- Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law Love is the Law. Love under Will
Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!! The Sovereign Peanut has Spoken!!
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EntheogenicPeace
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Quote:
How much should I do? Would you all say that for the intensity of trip, that fresh lemon/lime juice doubles the effects?
Hard to quantify, really. If someone hasn't done it yet (using lemon or lime concentrate), I would generally recommend half an eighth, maybe 2 grams for their first time this way. I did 2 grams the first time I used lemon concentrate (having a few dozen trips under my belt by this point), & I was very impressed.
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ChicagoMorel
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Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 164
Loc: NW Chicago Burbs
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Don't forget, citrus contains a whole host of powerful anti oxidant and metabolic compounds that could also be affecting the psilocyban absorption. This is a very interesting experiment. To be sure, create an experiment: Get several friends to join in and use the same shrooms. have one chew plain, one eat ground shrooms, one use ground+cranberry, and one ground+lemon.
-------------------- "Evolution is the slow conquest of dimensions, and music has always been the way."-Terrance McKenna "Sounds like funny machines!" -My 7 year old daughter Makayla, while listening to Shpongle.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: ChicagoMorel]
#12917180 - 07/18/10 08:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, perhaps other factors than the low pH affect it, but I think it appears that this is the main one assuming the psilocin is the active form of the molecule & is produced from psilocybin in the acidic conditions of the stomach. An informal experiment could perhaps yield some basic subjective info, but among different people I don't think it would have a lot of worth, perhaps unless they are all "veterans." The same person doing it more than one way, spaced at least a week apart, would probably be better, but even then other factors could affect their subjective perspective for any given trip. I think that only pure, objective science will answer the nuances of this subject with any confidence.
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gerryjarcia
biophiliac


Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
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sooooooo 4 years and 60 pages later what is the general consensus? can a group of shroomites even come to a "general consensus"? haha...maybe not
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Drchemist
Prying open my third-eye.

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 906
Loc: Ottoman Empire
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: gerryjarcia]
#12918802 - 07/19/10 10:02 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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It worked pretty damn well for me. Half 8th of cubes soaked for 30 min in a shot glass with lemon and lime juice. Drank it, came up full blown visuals in 15 minutes.
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all1word
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Drchemist]
#12919100 - 07/19/10 11:25 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hello everyone! First post, thought it might as well be about something, rather than just an introduction.
It seems that circumstances are all coming together to try out this tek for the first time tomorrow evening. Here's the background:
Male, late 20s, around 180 pounds, fairly experienced tripper, must have 50+ trips under my belt with various hallucinogens. Haven't done mushrooms in about 5 years so no tolerance whatsoever, but have experienced a lvl 2 san pedro trip about a month ago. That was a bit of a letdown, which led me to explore growing shrooms.
That's been fun and infuriating in equal measure, but I now have three fast growers on a cake that (apart from those three) is just beginning to pin. Tomorrow night will be an ideal time for an experience, schedule-wise.
With their current growth rate these three will probably be at around 4-5 grams wet; a very weak dose imo, but hoping to see what effect the lemon juice has.
So that's about it for the moment. I will of course do all the documenting tomorrow, with the precise details, but for now please send good thoughts to me and my three little friends, and see you tomorrow!
Love
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all1word
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: all1word]
#12924086 - 07/20/10 11:53 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK here we go. Empty stomach. Nice tidy room. Set and setting all good. Everything ready at T minus 15 minutes. 6g (approx)fresh cubensis in a shot glass, covered with fresh-squeezed lemon juice. a glass of oj by the side for washing down, and some fruit pastilles for any aftertaste (also because the hint that I got was that sugar was good for putting the brakes on if things start going south). Not sure when I'll next be in touch. Wish me bon voyage!
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all1word
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: all1word]
#12924208 - 07/20/10 12:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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+15min The shot went down a treat, no need for fruit pastilles, just a little OJ to help it on its way. First 10 minutes in dragon pose, coming to stillness. The music has just changed to the lark ascending, and it made me get up and write this. Still no real effects that couldn't be put down to placebo.
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all1word
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Registered: 07/19/10
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Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: all1word]
#12924275 - 07/20/10 12:34 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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+30min am no longer waiting as such, just going to go back to my normal business as I think I know how hard this is going to hit within the next 30 mins, and it certainly won't be anything to write home about. Will only write again if that changes. Good tek for ingestion though, made it very easy.
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grischnackh
Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 238
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Re: I may have discovered something... *DELETED* [Re: all1word]
#12933927 - 07/22/10 03:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by grischnackhReason for deletion: /
Edited by grischnackh (07/22/10 03:09 AM)
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Choiceless
I love Lucy



Registered: 06/24/10
Posts: 33
Loc: San Jose, California
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: grischnackh]
#12943887 - 07/24/10 12:45 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok, so I've been wanting to lemon tek, but I'm still not sure about one thing. Do I drink just the lemon juice or do I drink everything in the cup?
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Johnny Depp

Registered: 04/01/10
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Choiceless]
#12944230 - 07/24/10 03:23 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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.
Edited by Johnny Depp (12/19/14 02:48 AM)
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MrPeanutButta
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Registered: 04/29/10
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Johnny Depp]
#12948404 - 07/25/10 12:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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For some reason I completely forgot about lemon tek and me and my wife tripped the other night. We each took around a gram; maybe a little more. To get rid of the taste we both drank a cup of Minute Maid Limeade. The come up happened extremely fast; we tripped for around 3 hours and tripped hard.
This is how I know that without scientific evidence either way that this method does change a trip. We tripped 1 week prior off of shrooms from the same strain, batch and the same dose. During the first trip we merely had a body high and the giggles. When taking them with the limeade we had full effects with some visuals.
Don't get me wrong; it wasn't near like if you took a full eighth of potent cubes but it completely took us off guard and the only thing that had changed was the addition of the juice.
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Met


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 1,376
Loc: Normandie, France
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: MrPeanutButta]
#12948888 - 07/25/10 04:52 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I took 4.20 g of P. Subaeruginosa lemon-tek'd yesterday..Was fucking incredible.
I hate to say 'hardest I've ever tripped' but I think it's definitely a competitor.. Probably second only to my time on 8 g.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: grischnackh]
#12951265 - 07/25/10 04:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Lol, when I said it wouldn't happen in a shot glass, I wasn't considering the enzymes/cofactors still in the dried mushroom tissue. If they are active under conditions of low pH, that would seem to make sense.
The alternate (non-enzymatic) option, as i mentioned, would need to occur at basic pH for an -OH to do a nu: attack at the adjacent C (again, don't know off top of my head how well that would work with the delocalized electron density of the rings), displacing the phosphate group.
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 19,026
Loc: In Your Head
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someone recommended i try this a few years ago. only using key limes. saying something that they have higher acidity than lemons or regular limes. i don't really know but it worked well. just powdered with a squeeze of a lime or two. worked great.
ah i remember now. it was the belated hippie3 who told me this long ago. worked great too. but he said he would use a whiskey shot and a whole key lime. then just smush up the fresh mushies into the whole shot of whiskey till it turns blue. then slug the whole thing. i got a pic somewhere of this. ill take a look. anyway thought i uploaded it here. but i guess not. im out of space for pics. so here is a link to what i did.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/558466-post73.html
also it was being discussed to be used with the mushroom jello recipe here.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8572164
so you would use a little water to make the jello and a few limes as well! bet that would be an awesome combo! but if you look near the end of the thread. has some comments about the acidity of lemons, limes. not that i know if it has any difference. and ive not fully combed this thread. but the key limes worked well for me. but take a look at the cup full of blue liq1uid i drank with lime juice. shit was nice with a full moon on the beach!
i would say that we ate about half the usual dose of cubies. and we probably had a good 4 to 5 hour ride off a small shot volume of material. about half the dose.
found more discussion about it.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-growing-edible-medicinal-magic-mushrooms/62228-mushroom-lemon-tek.html#post914824
haha guess what, got more pic space!
Edited by eatyualive (08/25/10 08:52 PM)
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Moshrooms
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: eatyualive]
#13044460 - 08/13/10 12:03 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've been thinking...
P. Cubensis has about the same amount of psilocin as it has of psilocybin. This means that when you dry them, you could potentially lose about half of the active material to oxidation, right? But what if you don't dry them at all, but put them in a blender with lemon/lime juice plus some ascorbic acid and blend away and then filter after a few days of agitating the shroom laden juice?
Wouldn't this waste less active material than drying?
What would the downsides to this be? Are there any, except you need a blender?
Also, for the people with biochemistry skills: How much psilocin can say 100ml lemon/lime juice hold?
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Moshrooms]
#13050837 - 08/14/10 01:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Psilocin won't last long, so by converting the psilocybin to psilocin & leaving the solution to hang out for a few days (even if refrigerated), you'd be worse off than if you had just done the conventional food dehydrator way... perhaps even having nothing by this point. I've read that a flash freeze in liquid nitrogen followed by storage in a freezer will preserve the alkaloids w/o degradation, but cost & availability would be an issue.
I have access to liquid nitrogen bc the lab I work at has a tank or two that gets refilled whenever we need it, but i'm not sure the cost. Further, I'm not sure how easy it would be for the average person to get this service (perhaps, though, you could make up a compelling reason, but you'd still need to be in some kind of a lab, industrial, or other business setting where it would make sense.) So if you had access to a steady supply, it might be a cost-effective way of processing the mushrooms depending on what % of the alkaloids of interest are lost upon standard dehydration.
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (08/15/10 03:58 PM)
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