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OfflineBest
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Registered: 08/14/10
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13052743 - 08/14/10 09:48 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Figured this could be my first post. I'm a long time lurker of these boards and hope to contribute so why not start here I suppose.

About roughly 2-3 years ago I read this thread and was interested after reading various descriptions of the experience using lemon juice. So off to the grocery store I went and grabbed a bottle of lemon juice. I'm pretty sure it was one of those lemon bottles, not sure if it was 'real' lemon juice or not.

Anyways, I proceeded to pulverize approx 2.5g of cubensis (not sure of the exact amount but confident it was in that range) into basically a powder. I put this into a shot glass and covered with lemon juice and stirred it a few times. I believe I let it sit a while to make sure whatever was supposed to happen got done. Whatever other people were doing I guess since I'm sure I'd just try to follow what was successful. This was so long ago so details are sketchy.

So I took the juice down and recall that not all the gunk went with it so I had to swallow some disgusting lemon fungus bits. Mmmmmmmm. Well I wound up getting sick during the peak. Being experienced it didn't really freak me or anything but I remember the sensation of the lemon juice just burning coming back up and the overwhelming taste of lemony acid mixed with fungus and bile. It was gross as hell and the smell was strong as I purged it all out over the garbage can. I tasted lemons for the rest of the trip lol and kind of associated that taste with tripping for a while until the memory faded a bit.

Overall though the strength of the trip and come up wasn't any better. I wouldn't bother with this again, interesting theory but just didn't work for me. Maybe I should have just used fresh lemons or something.

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OfflineMoshrooms
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13063230 - 08/17/10 09:27 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Psilocin won't last long, so by converting the psilocybin to psilocin & leaving the solution to hang out for a few days (even if refrigerated), you'd be worse off than if you had just done the conventional food dehydrator way...




Are you sure about this? If so, how does it work? I know Psilocin oxidates as the first step in degradation, but if you soak it in antioxidants, does this still happen?

I noticed no blueing last time i did this with dry shrooms and that glass stayed in the refrigerator for more than a day.

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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Moshrooms]
    #13067041 - 08/17/10 11:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I've recently done some experimenting with the lemon tek vs eating them whole, and I've found some validity in the "faster, more intense trip" claims, but have been disappointed with the shortened length of the trip. Through continued experimentation I've found that I can have the best of both worlds (ie. early onset and very intense trip that lasts hours) by splitting my dose between lemon and munching.

My last dose (3.6g dried, homegrown B+) went something like this:

2.3g powdered B+
1 part lemon juice (about an oz.)
1/2 part lime juice
3 parts OJ
Splash of 100% cranberry juice

Mixture sat for about 15 minutes, stirred occasionally. After about 15 minutes  after drinking (or whenever you start to feel that "oh shit" feeling coming on) this surprisingly not bad tasting concoction, I munched down the remaining 1.3 grams with some leftover lemon juice as a chaser.

Using this technique I tripped harder than I ever have in my life, and the main part of the trip lasted a good 3.5 to 4 hours. I'll be using this method every time I dose from now on.


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin

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OfflinePOV
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #13067277 - 08/18/10 01:00 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Lemon tech works.... I couldn't see how anyone could disagree. I had 2 grams that I soaked in lemon juice and that trip was stronger than a time when I ate a little under an eighth....

-Pov


--------------------
Love, Sincerity, Desire...

"If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth."


"I am totally impressed with you people... Seriously, we live on a planet where we're very crammed together and I think we do really well. It's just when we watch the news and we watch entertainment... it's about peoples' conflicts tied together in the most exciting possible way."

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Moshrooms]
    #13070322 - 08/18/10 06:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Are you sure about this? If so, how does it work? I know Psilocin oxidates as the first step in degradation, but if you soak it in antioxidants, does this still happen?

I noticed no blueing last time i did this with dry shrooms and that glass stayed in the refrigerator for more than a day.




Interesting. I'm glad you challenged me on this, bc I just accepted the (supposedly) common wisdom that psilocin was inherently unstable in the presence of O2 w/o regard for conditions that might render this assumption false. According to this abstract, both psilocybin & psilocin are stable in aqueous solution over the course of a week so long as light is excluded. They probably used highly purified molecules, though, so I doubt that analysis took into account the possibility of endogenous enzymes degrading it.

The Wiki page says that exposure to O2 & H20 (and possibly Fe, as well), the compound degrades quickly, but there is no citation. Other info. says that it is particularly unstable in alkaline solution. I'm not sure the physiological pH of the cells in a mushroom fruiting body; I would guess close to neutral. If so, then that could make sense that a fair amt. of psilocin degrades in a food dehydrator (assuming it does), so it would thus be possibly that suspended in (very acidic) lemon juice for a few days (or more) in the refrigerator, especially with light excluded, it could be relatively well preserved.

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OfflineMoshrooms
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13071985 - 08/19/10 01:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Interesting. I'm glad you challenged me on this, bc I just accepted the (supposedly) common wisdom that psilocin was inherently unstable in the presence of O2 w/o regard for conditions that might render this assumption false.

According to this abstract, both psilocybin & psilocin are stable in aqueous solution over the course of a week so long as light is excluded. They probably used highly purified molecules, though, so I doubt that analysis took into account the possibility of endogenous enzymes degrading it.

The Wiki page says that exposure to O2 & H20 (and possibly Fe, as well), the compound degrades quickly, but there is no citation. Other info. says that it is particularly unstable in alkaline solution. I'm not sure the physiological pH of the cells in a mushroom fruiting body; I would guess close to neutral. If so, then that could make sense that a fair amt. of psilocin degrades in a food dehydrator (assuming it does), so it would thus be possibly that suspended in (very acidic) lemon juice for a few days (or more) in the refrigerator, especially with light excluded, it could be relatively well preserved.




See, i was thinking, that since we think it's unstable in alkaline conditions, shouldn't acidic conditions be a better choice? Like H20 with Citric Acid and Ascorbic Acid?

I think shrooms are around neutral, but i think it might be possible to lower, if you use some sort of pH- in the substrate. Who knows what the  mycelium would think about that, though. One might end up with completely retarded growth.

Now that you mention it, i don't even know if drying causes that much loss of potency. I was assuming drying would cause most of the psilocin to degrade, whilst preserving the psilocybin.

I hadn't seen that paper, but it was a nice addition of information. Now i begin to wonder about endogenous enzymes. How could one inhibit them? And if you'd freeze that solution, so as to minimize O2 exchange, would that prolong the viability of the solution?

I'm just trying to find a good and easy way to preserve as much potency as possible for a long time. Low tech, so to speak.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Moshrooms]
    #13079667 - 08/20/10 05:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Why would you want to preserve a solution with psilocybin/psilocin in it for any prolonged amount of time? The flash freeze in liquid nitrogen, grinding them, & then freezing until use is the only known way around drying them for long-term storage that I am aware of. Do you think your time is best spent by trying to add beta-mercaptoethanol to denature enzymes or other things to solution to get around drying them, & then having to "clean" it for consumption whenever someone wants some to remove potential compounds in there detrimental to health? Plus, a refrigerated solution would just be cumbersome & have repeated exposures to light, a fresh infusion of O2, & at least slightly warming up during the course of use.

Just dry them out after harvest, & then do the pre-soak in lemon or lime concentrate if desired. Has worked fine dozens of times for me & everyone else. :mushroom2:

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InvisibleMcTwist
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Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 1,969
Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13080508 - 08/20/10 08:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

A question, don't know if this has been asked before but...

if I soaked 15mg of 4-AcO-DMT in lemon juice, do you think it'd be potentiated? Just curious

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OfflineMoshrooms
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13082356 - 08/21/10 10:45 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Why would you want to preserve a solution with psilocybin/psilocin in it for any prolonged amount of time? The flash freeze in liquid nitrogen, grinding them, & then freezing until use is the only known way around drying them for long-term storage that I am aware of. Do you think your time is best spent by trying to add beta-mercaptoethanol to denature enzymes or other things to solution to get around drying them, & then having to "clean" it for consumption whenever someone wants some to remove potential compounds in there detrimental to health? Plus, a refrigerated solution would just be cumbersome & have repeated exposures to light, a fresh infusion of O2, & at least slightly warming up during the course of use.

Just dry them out after harvest, & then do the pre-soak in lemon or lime concentrate if desired. Has worked fine dozens of times for me & everyone else. :mushroom2:




Because since P. Cubensis has such a large amount of Psilocin compared to other species, Cubes lose more potency/weight than others do by drying. I'm no expert. I don't want this to go to lab-levels, i just want to see what solutions there might be. Now you've told me.

A frozen solution wouldn't necessarily be exposed to light after you put it in the freezer, that all depends on what container you use and where in the freezer you keep it.

Guess i'll have to stick to drying, then. But if anyone has the equipment, it'd be nice to see someone at least try different methods.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Moshrooms]
    #13082550 - 08/21/10 11:38 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, depending on the price & availability on liquid nitrogen (and also what % of the alkaloids are lost during dehydration), that might be economical. If you had a small harvest maybe preservation right away in lemon juice (low pH & high vitamin C) would be worthwhile dependent on the quality of preservation vs. time stored. However, I can't imagine it would be practical for larger harvests & instances where the material is going to be divided & sent somewhere else prior to consumption.

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Invisiblewondercat
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Posts: 476
Loc: Flag
Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #13082589 - 08/21/10 11:48 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Anything acidic will seem to increase potency. Lime juice works too as do oranges and other citrus fruits. I think it puts more pressure on your liver and that makes you feel crazier.  But its also terrible for your stomach lining. works, pretty well though.
those little sicilia lime and lemon juices.... and tiny glasses of orange juice. fun stuff.


--------------------


it truly is an illusion- your senses are just perceiving the varying vibrations in different ways- its holography; a representation.

"Nothing" is easy - Mooji

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Offlinedanceparty
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: wondercat]
    #13088187 - 08/22/10 08:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

last night i tried experimenting a bit, so i lemon tekked 9 grams and split it up between 4 people. i wanted to see what heat would do since i thought it could speed up the reaction and possibly make it better. so i soaked the shredded shrooms in lemon juice, let it sit for 10 minutes, then poured it into some hot water (not boiling, i let it sit), and drank it like a tea sipping up the bits inside. anyways, we all had light trips, and 2 of the people said they didn't feel anything because it was their first time and they "dont know how it feels".

my theory on what happened is that the lemon converted psilocybin into psilocin which degrades in heat, and me adding the hot water destroyed most of the active ingredients.

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OfflineMichaelAbbotsford
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: danceparty]
    #13129623 - 08/31/10 04:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

tried this last night! blew my mind, like what I experienced on 2 hits of acid.
1. used pure lemon juice
2. put the ground shrooms(2 grams) in a shot glass, filled the rest of the glass with the lemon juice. let them soak for 10 or 15 and it like a shot(still sucked on the shrooms). then I ate another 1.8 grams.
3/4.felt effects within 20 minutes, visual disturbance started simultaneously.
4. it probably took about an hour to peak, and the peak itself lasted an hour or so. still felt like an eternity. this trip was equivalent to my highest I've even been, which was on almost 6 grams of very high quality mushrooms.
5. first sign of diminishing effects was 3 hours in from that point on it was a slow, at times confusing come down. at times I felt sober, others I felt crazy. that lasted about two hours until I drifted off to dream.

also smoked marijuana during my trip, which was great. My trip consisted of very bright, defined colors, fluid hallucinations on walls, as if they were liquid. Ended up going into my room and tearing down all my posters, then leaving them on someones door step. must have decided to change my life or something. anyways this deffinantly works, I recommend it to all!

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InvisibleServantOfBaphomet
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: MichaelAbbotsford]
    #13161809 - 09/07/10 08:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

A few weeks ago, I ate a couple dried grams of cubies. After 45 or so minutes, I was thinking "well, not so bad.. but nothing to get excited about."

I drank a glass of pretty strong lemonade that is cut with raspberry juice, but it is still pretty tart lemonade. I know that experiments call for fresh juice, due to the enzymes and everything else that fresh juice has that bottled juice doesn't.

In just 10 minutes, I was tripping harder in a very noticeable way. Definitely harder than if I had not drank the lemonade.

-Me


--------------------
Do what thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law
Love is the Law. Love under Will

Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!!
The Sovereign Peanut has Spoken!!

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OfflineDrombeG
Strangerer Than Some......
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: ServantOfBaphomet]
    #13254121 - 09/27/10 02:21 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Longest Thread Ever.........FACT!!!

Ive been scrutinizing this thread for the past 4 days on and off and find it very interesting, so I have come to this conclusion............. must be worth a shot LoL...


--------------------
There's No Such Thing As Madness,... Just Different Degrees Of Sanity.  :mushdance:

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InvisiblePsilocypher
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: DrombeG]
    #13254342 - 09/27/10 03:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hi all, I'm going to be experimenting with the lemon tek very soon, but just had a couple of questions...

Say I can usually get a nice medium-heavy trip from taking 30 liberty caps, would taking 10-15 liberty caps work well using the lemon tek? In other words, does it intensify the trip or just make them come on quicker?

Also, are fresh lemons (squeezed) better than bottled lemon juice?

Thanks :mushroom2:


--------------------

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Offlinephayze
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: Psilocypher]
    #13254425 - 09/27/10 03:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

hi on sat i had 60 libs in lemonade with a full lemon squeezed in not much in the way of visuals but it was a nice comfortable feeling it came on in about 20 mins but not very strong,maybe its just me but i dont get visuals with smaller doses anymore i usually have about 150 libs,when i was about 18 i had 1000+ boiled up but i could only manage to get half down it was like syrup and frogspawn mixed but that was a trip i will never forget both scary and eyeopening was sick twice but hey i was young and stupid well maybe not stupid as i said it was eyeopening and after remembering was good,just scary at the time.anyway since then i dont get much in the way of visuals on low doses,cant wait to try golden teachers hopefully have some in next couple of weeks. :crazy2:


--------------------
IF WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE WE HAD BEEN WE WOULDN'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING

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Offlinel3estever
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: phayze]
    #13254980 - 09/27/10 05:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

wow thats awesome man.  im gonna try it when i get my shrooms :smile:

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Onlinecurenado
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: l3estever]
    #13255189 - 09/27/10 05:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I never noticed the MOD EDIT for info here so here is my blurb.

We use these creatures in the treatment of severe pain associated with neuropathy because regular pain medications are not very effective.
So while these results aren't "Level 5" type instances, the results are pretty consistent, and the only delay of onset seems to be relative to the last time and amount of food consumption. i.e. Effects may be delayed by ten minutes or so if the person has recently eaten solid, heavier food.

# What liquid are you using?

Real Lemon lemon juice concentrate

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz)

1 oz

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen")

10 to 20 minutes for onset of pain relief.

Full level of pain relief achieved 30-45 minutes

# Time to onset of visual disturbance

Approximately identical to full pain achievement or 30-45 minutes. However, the Lo-Dose usually does not cause much side effects beyond laughter and minor visual enhancement or alteration. i.e. they would not notice a "peak" usually.

# Time to peak (rough estimate)

Unknown. We inform them that after one hour, the relief achieved will be the maximum.

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects

Unknown. Most pain patients fall asleep within two hours and wake up after about 2 hours.
Relief has lasted up to two days in severe cases.

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)

Unknown. Patient variables come into play changing the amount of relief time achieved.


I only add this because we use the lemon tek in almost all patient applications for the purpose of potentiating the pain relief effect at the lowest possible dose. It works.

OK! Be careful and have fun playing! As for my personal use of the lemon tek for higher level experiences:

:raveface:
oh baby!


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

"The Creator's Glory is the Truth, and the magic mushroom is the proof" - DebE

No makin funna my pomes!

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Offlinecdubbz111
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Re: I may have discovered something... [Re: curenado]
    #13262723 - 09/29/10 01:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Ive had great success grinding about 1.5grams in a coffee grinder and then put into a shotglass, fill shot glass with fresh squeazed lemon juice. I then make a glass of hot tea, let it cool off and basically do a mushroom bomb (like a yaegerbomb...) and chug it all.

My logic goes as this, the powder starts to convert to psyilocin in the shot glass, and as soon as it hits ur system, it synthesises into your blood stream so much faster, and noticably stronger.

the trip lasts less, about 3-4 hrs for me and is consistantly very very strong.

I did this tech once and ate 14 dry grams.
Threw up 3 times and achieved the most bizare euphoria. It was very very intense, so much so that i freaked out and hid under my bed for the entire trip while listening to the dark side of the moon.... good times...


still havent figgured out how to counter act the nausea after that triip tho...


--------------------

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