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InvisibletrendalM
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Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - now a third species that needs ID...
    #4713911 - 09/26/05 01:54 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

(before anyone asks - no, I'm not planning on eating these)

I found these two species growing side-by-side on a lawn this morning, after an all-night light rain.

Species #1:


Habitat: freshly cut lawn, growing together in bunches
Gills: black with VERY close spacing, NOT attached to stem
Stem: about 4" long, 1/4" diameter and VERY delicate, also hollow
Cap: convex cone, silk-like to the touch. dark-brown, turning black with age. edges are ragged, some caps had splits running from edge to center
Spore print: (will post pics when I have them - but I'm quite certain the spores are jet-black on these ones, see pic below)
Scent: vaguely like regular table mushroms (A. bisporus)

Some kind of Coprinus, perhaps? As you can see here, the spores wipe off of the older caps with an ink-like appearance:



Species #2:


Habitat: freshly cut lawn, growing individually
Gills: pink-brown, fair amount of space in between and not attached to stem
Stem: about 1/2" diameter and 1-2" long, they are solid all the way through and are quite firm (though not fibrous)
Cap: convex but nearly flat, white, generally round but there were some irregularly shaped ones (one was 4" long by only 1" wide)
Spore print: (to be posted later...)
Scent: VERY closely (as in EXACTLY) smells like the common table mushroom

And I have no idea about these ones...some kind of Agaricus? I'll have to wait for the spore print.


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Edited by trendal (09/27/05 01:38 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... [Re: trendal]
    #4713929 - 09/26/05 01:57 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Well it's only been 10 minutes, but they've already started to lay down some prints! No pics yet, as the prints are still quite light...but on first inspection:

Species 1: black spores, possibly with a hint of violet colour

Species 2: rusty-brown spores

I will post pics in a few hours, the prints should be dark enough by then at this rate.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... [Re: trendal]
    #4714327 - 09/26/05 03:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, got some prints now too:

Species 1:

Definitely dark-black.


Species 2:

Kind of a sandy-brown colour.


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Offlinecube428
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Re: Need ID on two species.... [Re: trendal]
    #4714351 - 09/26/05 03:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

not suure bout Species # 2.. But #1 looks to be some sort of Inky Cap perhaps?  just a guess because of how delicate you said it is when handled..  but yea your right, Please do not eat either of those,

have a shroomy Day  :mushroom2:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... [Re: cube428]
    #4714365 - 09/26/05 03:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah I'm pretty sure it's some kind of coprinus, especially from the mess the spores make on anything the cap touches :smirk:

The caps are definitely the same shape/type as other Inky Caps I've seen, but the colouring is quite different (these caps are quite dark, the other Inky Caps I've seen were pale white).


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Offlinecube428
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Re: Need ID on two species.... [Re: trendal]
    #4714415 - 09/26/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

yeaa , I think it just varies from Coprinus to Coprinus on how their cap is colored tho.. depending on different factors such as habitat found in, etc..


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: trendal]
    #4715293 - 09/26/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I found another patch of what appears to be Coprinus micaceus, this one was on my lawn (a different location than the other Coprinus shown above).

These are all young specimens, they still have the white granules on some parts of the caps (on the very top of the cap in this pic):


Nearby there were a few degraded specimens in which the cap had completely dissolved into a black goo:


Did I get this one right? Coprinus micaceus?
http://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/species/Coprinus_micaceus.html


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: trendal]
    #4715300 - 09/26/05 06:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Species #2 is some sort of an Agaricus and is probably edible if it smells pleasant (that doesn't mean eat it). It is related to the common store mushroom which are Agaricus bisporus. In general, poisonous Agaricus smell and taste bad and none of them are deadly. It might be worth researching further if they are abundant and you like to eat mushrooms for food.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: Workman]
    #4716078 - 09/26/05 08:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The first is indeed Coprinus micaceus and the second is (95% probability) Agaricus bitorquis, a delicious edible.

Cool finds,  :thumbup:
Enjoy!  :crazy2:


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4716527 - 09/26/05 09:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

that agaric looks tastey. it looks like a ceasers? idk, ill have to get my book, but its ont he other side of the room - so NO GO


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Offlinejobot37
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4716532 - 09/26/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I say its the same as lysegic, wonderful, and as long as we are discussing coprinus, I found som shaggy mane eggs yesterday, whoo :thumbup:


Edited by jobot37 (09/26/05 09:38 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: jobot37]
    #4716561 - 09/26/05 09:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Last year (about this time) I found a bunch of shaggy manes pretty close (as in a few meters) to the patch of C. micaceus that I found today.

Those are the ones that have to dissolve themselves to spread their spores, right?


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #4716815 - 09/26/05 10:36 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KidgardFromSRQ said:
that agaric looks tastey. it looks like a ceasers? idk, ill have to get my book, but its ont he other side of the room - so NO GO




Agaricus bitorquis is a very close cousin of Agaricus bisporus (as you might have guessed). The former (bitorquis) is considered to have a better taste.

Ahhhhh shaggy mane... mmmm.... I only found a few last spring unfortunately. I can't wait till next season!


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Offlinejobot37
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: trendal]
    #4716902 - 09/26/05 10:55 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Last year (about this time) I found a bunch of shaggy manes pretty close (as in a few meters) to the patch of C. micaceus that I found today.

Those are the ones that have to dissolve themselves to spread their spores, right?




indeed they are, the gills liquify into a black goo that is then dispersed by insects


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: jobot37]
    #4717103 - 09/26/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

indeed they are, the gills liquify into a black goo that is then dispersed by insects

This is true, they are however dispersed by the air also. As the gills dissolve
they expose the ripe spores that are ejected from the basidia to the air as they would be in any other
basidiomyces.

Quote:

(From McLaughlin, et al. 1985; used with permission ? McLaughlin, Beckett and Yoon 1985.)

One of the most fascinating characteristics of Basidiomycota is the production of forcibly discharged ballistospores (Fig. 2), which are propelled into the air from the sterigma. Ballistospores may be sexual or asexual, and may be produced by basidia, hyphae, yeast cells, or even other ballistospores. This type of spore discharge must have evolved very early in the evolutionary history of the Basidiomycota as it is found in members of the earliest diverging lineages within the group. Ballistospory is associated with forms that disperse their spores directly into the air. Most aquatic Basidiomycota and forms that produce spores inside the fruiting body, such as puffballs, have lost ballistospory.

Ballistospory is associated with the production of a liquid filled "hilar droplet" that forms at the base of the spore, just above its attachment to the sterigma (Fig. 2). Resolving the mechanism of ballistospory has been a longstanding problem in mycology (Buller 1909, 1922; Ingold 1939; McLaughlin et al. 1985; Webster et al. 1984a, b; Yoon and McLaughlin 1986). In a series of studies, reviewed by Money (1998), it has been shown that spore discharge occurs when the hilar droplet fuses with a film of liquid on the surface of the spore. The rapid coalescence of the liquids causes a sudden shift in the center of mass of the spore and contributes to its release from the sterigma. This mechanism has been termed a "surface tension catapult" and it results in spores being discharged with a force of about 25,000 g (Money 1998).




part in bold is very cool, not in bold in the link:

from this page

Coprinus species gills are so tightly packed that if the gills remained intact
the spores would stick to the gills facing the ones the spores came from when they are ejected. As the gills deliquesse it exposes the ripening spores to the air rather than just being stuck to another gill.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: falcon]
    #4717111 - 09/26/05 11:29 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

25,000 Gs?! That's insane!


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4717160 - 09/26/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You get to close to a gill and you end up with a pock marked face. :smirk:

It is pretty insane and  most of the energy come from that drop of water slipping around the spore.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4717197 - 09/26/05 11:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.anbg.gov.au/fungi/spore-discharge-mushrooms.html

This has more complete description of the process.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: falcon]
    #4717597 - 09/27/05 12:45 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The surface-tension of water is QUITE strong, especially at microscopic scales!

Even on scales NOT microscopic, it is quite strong: if an ant gets caught in a DROP of water, it can't escape due to the surface tension of the droplet!

Don't anyone ever ask me why I like science :smirk:


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Need ID on two species.... UPDATE - spore prints/pics [Re: falcon]
    #4718149 - 09/27/05 02:06 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Coprinus species gills are so tightly packed that if the gills remained intact
the spores would stick to the gills facing the ones the spores came from when they are ejected. As the gills deliquesse it exposes the ripening spores to the air rather than just being stuck to another gill.




Very true. In fact, Coprinus species have cystidia on the gill faces to keep the gills apart enough so the spores can develop (learned that from Orson Miller). Now *that's* crowded gills.

Happy mushrooming!


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