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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders...
    #4713242 - 09/26/05 10:54 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Do you think people of degraded physical status(heart conditions, missing limbs, seizures) can make good political leaders?

I do not believe that anyone who is not in peak physical condition should be allowed to lead a country. They are a figurehead, and should not represent weakness.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4713300 - 09/26/05 11:19 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i think you are a borderline eugenist if thats is truly your stance.

the leader of a country should not need to be strong enough to fend himself from attackers. His job is to think clearly, and guide the country.

Would it be safe to assume you are opposed to a woman leading a country?


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I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Registered: 08/08/03
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4713324 - 09/26/05 11:30 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Are you referring just to democratic leaders? People should be allowed that have the leader they wish to vote for, and that should not be overruled by some arbitrary physical restriction.

Such a policy would also seem to restrict a state to younger less experienced leaders.

Are you also against ugly leaders?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4713335 - 09/26/05 11:33 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Are you also against ugly leaders?




Hell yes...that's why I will not be voting for Hillary Clinton if she runs in 2008.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4713369 - 09/26/05 11:48 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Some of Romes best emperors were disabled. i believe claudius was disabled.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4713402 - 09/26/05 11:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I think it depends on the kind of image you wish to project to the world. If you want to look tough, then get a tough leader. But if you want to extend diplomatic relationships and make peace, I see no problem with a leader who is physically weak.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4713409 - 09/26/05 12:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

What about a war hero that lost an arm in battle?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4713436 - 09/26/05 12:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The Swiftboat Veterans for Truth would surely make quick work of him.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #4713529 - 09/26/05 12:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ceaser had epilepsy...at least that's what HBO says.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: afoaf]
    #4713805 - 09/26/05 01:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
i think you are a borderline eugenist if thats is truly your stance.



You saw my "Eugenics" thread in S&P?

Quote:

kotik said:
the leader of a country should not need to be strong enough to fend himself from attackers. His job is to think clearly, and guide the country.



Even though in our country the President is the Commander-in-Chief as well? To me, this means not only should he be able to lead a military, it should be obligatory that he do so.

Quote:

kotik said:
Would it be safe to assume you are opposed to a woman leading a country?



It is never safe to assume. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups.
However, you are correct in this case.


Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Are you referring just to democratic leaders? People should be allowed that have the leader they wish to vote for, and that should not be overruled by some arbitrary physical restriction.



For every unhealthy mouthpiece of a political philosophy, there is another that is healthy. Why not make it a choice between healthy ones?

Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Such a policy would also seem to restrict a state to younger less experienced leaders.



I did not mean that they had to be the fittest of all, just in proper shape in general.

Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Are you also against ugly leaders?



Aesthetics have nothing to do with my political leanings.


Quote:

afoaf said:
ceaser had epilepsy...at least that's what HBO says.



That's actually a big part of why I made this thread. The boy who witnessed his condition was instructed to make no mention of it to anyone. Weak leaders were frowned upon.
The other reason I was thinking about this is good ol' Dick(face) Cheney. His health is questionable at best. If Bush were to ever OD during one of his coke sessions, then this weakling would take his place. What kind of message would that send to the world. The most powerful nation lets a man with a bad heart, that has to work from home, run the country.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4713888 - 09/26/05 01:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ok, saw your eugenics thread. I hope you really dont give any credit to that psuedo science


--------------------
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I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: kotik]
    #4713989 - 09/26/05 02:06 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Selective breeding isn't something I care much about, I am more interested in the genetic engineering aspect of it. Smarter/stronger humans is a goal I think we can all appreciate.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4714042 - 09/26/05 02:17 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

yes, but it has NEVER been proven that smart people produce smart children, or that morons (Goddard's scientific term) produce stupid children.

In fact, most of the very founders of eugenics admitted that the tests they used were unbalanced at best, in favor of Nordic Whites, followed by Alpine Whites, followed by Greek Whites, then it ascended all the way down to "Hottentots" (black people of the lowest social status, according to most of the researchers).

I assure you I am not new to the subject by any means and I would be delighted to disprove, or at least discredit just about anything you may be able to bring up in support of eugenics, or even the Binet IQ test that is being used even today.

Eugenics largely refers to innane ntelligence - that is, predetermined capacity for knowledge that does not increase or decrease through education.. it is a set value for each person, depending on their genes.

and it is 100% bullshit. Intelligence is a result of culture, environment, beliefs and MOST OF ALL: the test being used to determine intelligence.

Is it so hard to believe all of these white, european craniologists / eugenists were giving africans, mexicans, spanish, jewish, tests that had more to do with european culture than intelligence.

Think about having an african do a math equation when they had developed their own form of counting along with many other skills not developed by europeans, or giving native americans written tests when they had never used a pen / pencil before.

Where and when did you decide to look into eugenics? It is quite an odd field.. and a very old, outdated and overrated one at that.


--------------------
music: myspace.com/soundscientists
.
I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: kotik]
    #4714060 - 09/26/05 02:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I am more interested in the genetic engineering aspect of it. Smarter/stronger humans is a goal I think we can all appreciate.




ok, i missed that... I share your curiosity in the matter, and I do think that there is much to be learned, but I do not think that anyone is smart enough to know the outcomes of genetically engineering a human. We still don't even really know how the brain works. I mean neuroscience was only founded 100 years ago. Compared to evolution, we are still puppets.


--------------------
music: myspace.com/soundscientists
.
I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: kotik]
    #4714158 - 09/26/05 02:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Eugenics largely refers to innane ntelligence - that is, predetermined capacity for knowledge that does not increase or decrease through education.. it is a set value for each person, depending on their genes.

and it is 100% bullshit. Intelligence is a result of culture, environment, beliefs and MOST OF ALL: the test being used to determine intelligence.



I have not done enough research on the subject to form an opinion one way or another in regards to the role genetics plays in intelligence. This is something I just started dabbling in. Any suggested reading material?

Here is another thread you may enjoy if you have not done so already.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4714237 - 09/26/05 02:57 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Any suggested reading material?




well first of all if you are really interested in the factual side of eugenics, IQ testing and the overall testing of intelligence it is essential that you read The Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould. His scientific approach, and thorough documentation along with a very extensive bibliography has convinced me that anyone that truly looks into eugenics or the intelligence of humans will come to a similar conclusion: the intelligence of a human cannot be determined, let alone put into a nice simple number...

I have not come across a better book on the subject that was so easy to read.

Quote:

Here is another thread you may enjoy if you have not done so already.




eewwwwww the BELL CURVE? haha, please read the book I listed first, then read the Bell Curve if you still feel like there are some questions left unanswered.


--------------------
music: myspace.com/soundscientists
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I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: kotik]
    #4714345 - 09/26/05 03:15 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I have read Mismeasure. Have your read Neo-Lysenkoism, IQ, and the Press?

Let's take this to the other thread though and leave this one to commentary on weak leaders.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4714464 - 09/26/05 03:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

IMO... a "obese" (over fat) President would be a weak leader.

lots of obese people here in south Texas. even obese kids! IMO its a serious problem in this country and the president should set a good example.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: daimyo]
    #4714932 - 09/26/05 04:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I asked if you we referring to leaders in a democratic system, I will assume that you are. Also I will assume you are not just talking about the President, but any elected office. Correct me if I assume incorrectly.

Quote:


Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Are you referring just to democratic leaders? People should be allowed that have the leader they wish to vote for, and that should not be overruled by some arbitrary physical restriction.



For every unhealthy mouthpiece of a political philosophy, there is another that is healthy. Why not make it a choice between healthy ones?





Given a the population as a whole you are probably correct, of those that run for office we are not exactly spoilt for choice as it is, further restricting choice would seem to me to make a bad situation worse.

Quote:


Quote:

psilomonkey said:
Are you also against ugly leaders?



Aesthetics have nothing to do with my political leanings.





I was trying to ascertain what you meant by 'degraded physical status'. You mentioned missing limbs, what about a missing eye, or finger, for facial scaring?

I would say that strength of character, dedication and humility to the people a leader represents are more important than physical condition. If the voters did not believe a leader were up to the job they should not vote for them.

I have a big problem with people being able to decided on who can and can't run for office rather than letting the voters decide for themselves.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Your Thoughts on Weak Leaders... [Re: psilomonkey]
    #4715795 - 09/26/05 07:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

franklin Roosevelt suffered from polio as a child that left him paralyzed... He served four terms as President from a wheelchair, and he led this country through most of WWII...


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We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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