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Invisibleshymanta
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In need of devil's advocate for glovebox
    #4712227 - 09/26/05 12:54 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I have been working on an idea for a glovebox for a sterile environment in which to make spore syringes. I ask that anyone out there who has knowledge of this type of thing give some feed back and be a devils advocate. Try to find flaws in my design, suggest improvements. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Well here it is so far.

It just a plastic Rubbermaid tub with locking handles.



I used two applications of weather stripping; one around the top rim of the tub and one inside the lip of the lid. When the top is lock on, it seals the chamber. (Actually, I found a problem there already. See the red circles in the 3rd pic)





Once I have an air tight seal, two holes will be cut into the side of the tub for a pair of heavy duty latex gloves. I have two white PVC couplers to put in the holes and seal around the edges. To the PVC the gloves will be attach inside-out, then turned inward. Sorry, about the pic. I don't have this part done yet to photo but the concept is illustrated.



When the gloves are inserted and the top air tight, Lysol can be sprayed inside and the chamber sealed, ready for use.

I do have one questions to any who know. I have seen boxes like this one that are air tight and one that has a filtered air intake blowing sterile air into the box and out of any holes.

Which is better? ...why do you think this is so?


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4712742 - 09/26/05 03:12 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I say with a glove box, go simple. I've used both "positive pressure" and simple plain boxes, and the still air ones work better. You don't want air moving unless it really is laminar, hepa filtered air.

for an airtight seal, those ribs are easy to cut off with an exacto knife. Well, I say easy, but be careful, I got a few stitches once. I was being careless though, knew it was coming about 5 seconds before I cut myself, but still kept doing exactly what I was doing.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: mycofile]
    #4712757 - 09/26/05 03:25 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

an airtight seal is not necessary... a glovebos does not need to be this complicated...

a few issues i have with the design-

i'm not sure how large that is, but your glovebox will have to be tall enough to accomodate the height of the tallest container you'll be drawing spore solution out of, plus the height of a fully extended syringe, plus the space your hand will take up while you draw the solution...

the armholes, if they are just an inch or two larger than your arms, will restrict movement within the box so much as to make it almost useless...

a better way would be to measure the width of your body including your arms, and cut a rectangle out of the front of the box that is four inches wider than that measurement and around 8- 12 inches high...

in front of the cut out rectangle, hang a flap thet extends an inch past both sides and goes right to the bottom of the box... the rectangle should be cut as close to the bottom as possible...

this arrangement will give you freedom of movement throughout the entire box...

when you use the box, you should be freshly showered, wearing a shirt that is clean and has not been outside since it was washed, wwearing gloves and your forearms sprayed with lysol...

this will not be an airtight sterile environment, but you don't really need that... you just need a pocket of still air to work in that is covered so that contaminants cannot fall onto your work from above...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4712812 - 09/26/05 04:09 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"in front of the cut out rectangle, hang a flap that extends an inch past both sides and goes right to the bottom of the box... the rectangle should be cut as close to the bottom as possible..."

What type of material are you suggesting? Thick plastic? Then, put the gloves through the plastic?

Come to think of it, that tub is way to small. Maybe I'll use it for an incubation chamber instead and get one of those huge storage bins they have at Wal-mart for the glovebox. One that's about 24" deep?

Thanks for the rate BTW, and I really like the PF Tek Beginers kit, thanks again.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4712948 - 09/26/05 06:50 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

thin plastic is good, like garbage bag or the like... there would be no gloves attached to this box, the gloves would be on your hands... to use the box, you'd put your hands into the box under the flap... the flap is only attached at the top, the other 3 sides are free...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Offlinescram
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4715832 - 09/26/05 07:43 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

hepa filter: what about a vacuum cleaner filter?
and i'd filter the air going out too


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4717011 - 09/26/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The box does seem a little small. I think the only thing you are missing design-wise is a hole to allow some of the humidity (like from Lysol spraying) to escape. Cover the hole with Tyvek or similar filter material.


--------------------


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: scram]
    #4717018 - 09/26/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

scram said:
and i'd filter the air going out too




Out of the glove box? That wouldn't make sense.


--------------------


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: FooMan]
    #4717101 - 09/26/05 11:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

filtering the air doesn't make sense at all. unless you're going to use the output of a proper flowhood, and that wouldn't even maks sense, if you had a flowhood you woudn't need a glove box. a 'hepa-type' filter just isn't good enough...

the thing you need is still air, not airtight. You can be airtight all day but if you're pumping in contams its not worth bupkis...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #4719682 - 09/27/05 02:12 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed. Still air is how a glovebox is supposed to function. It also need not be sterile. You're not going to dump your grain out on the floor of the box. Just wash the inside of the box with soap and water, put the lid on and go to work. I use the 'five seconds rule' when working in a gb. Never have a jar or petri dish open for more than five seconds. Plan ahead, work accurately and a glovebox can return almost as good a result as a flowhood.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4720132 - 09/27/05 03:48 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

good rule :thumbup:


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4720505 - 09/27/05 05:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I too have a 5 second rule, but it's a little different. It goes like this:
When doing anything cultivation related, stop and spend at least 5 seconds asking yourself, "have I ever read Roger post anything about this?"

Your success rate will increase 87.29% by asking yourself that simple question.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: mycofile]
    #4721725 - 09/27/05 08:43 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

well i havent used a still air box...as far as functional do you guys have any ideas on it not being super hot inside the box...my positive pressure box keeps my forearms from sweating after ive been in there awhile...

also with the rectangular cut...is it one long flap or say 3-4 peices so that as you move around in the box the complete hole isnt exposed?


--------------------
First Grow No more carpet tek


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: JSshroom]
    #4722111 - 09/27/05 10:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

one long flap... as you move around the box. only the space between your elbows is exposed, but your body blocks that, and its the very bottom so nothing can fall in that way...

thats why you need a clean shirt...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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OfflineCocosBoyFarm
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4887274 - 11/03/05 08:39 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Hey uh, are those Playtex pantyhose or gloves in that box?  :smile:  Your box looks solid so far, but I'll have to critique it gently in a few minutes here.  Me myself?  Due to a incident involving liberal amounts of alcohol in my blood and in my glove box, I lost my eyebrows.  It was traumatic but kind of entertaining at the same time.  My eyebrows grew back, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why I struck an open lighter inside a box saturated with ethyl alcohol.  I guess I was trying to be sterile.  Really sterile. 

BUT, with that slight of insight, I'll say this - my follow up glove box, a half-assed box made from a WalMart dremeled container with a saran wrap lid and saran wrap guards for the arm holes, has reduced all contamination to zero (in my neck of the woods).  No mold of any kind.  None.  So if your box is tighter than this... you can imagine what your box can do for you.  Lysol is your friend.  Yes, yes, it builds up a residue, but it really screws all the nasties.


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Offlinespazman
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4891556 - 11/04/05 12:46 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I use a 10 gallon aquarium flipped on its side and plastic covering the "top" with two holes cut in it. I have never had a contaminated jar using this. I shower use clean clothes and gloves.


--------------------
Jesus Died for our Sins, I'm just making it worth his while!
:smile:

SpazMan


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: mycofile]
    #4896273 - 11/05/05 03:34 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mycofile said:

Your success rate will increase 87.29% by asking yourself that simple question.




Interesting. How did you arrive at such an exact figure?

Here is my tip.
Never completely remove the lid from a jar or petri, if you can avoid it.
Instead, just tilt the lid, just enough to get the job done.


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4896384 - 11/05/05 04:22 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Agreed. Still air is how a glovebox is supposed to function. It also need not be sterile. You're not going to dump your grain out on the floor of the box. Just wash the inside of the box with soap and water, put the lid on and go to work. I use the 'five seconds rule' when working in a gb. Never have a jar or petri dish open for more than five seconds. Plan ahead, work accurately and a glovebox can return almost as good a result as a flowhood.
RR




^^ a glovebox can return almost as good a result as a flowhood.

Zorry, but i must disagree.

A still air glove box, properly used, beats a flow hood by leaps and bounds.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: shymanta]
    #4896482 - 11/05/05 05:02 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

you know... to actually be a "Devil's advocate" you need to be a trusted and credentialed member of the catholic clergy.

Just a factoid for you.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Invisibleagar
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Re: In need of devil's advocate for glovebox [Re: deanofmean]
    #4896493 - 11/05/05 05:12 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

>>>>>>>>A still air glove box, properly used, beats a flow hood by leaps and bounds<<<<<<<<<<.

IMHO, that would depend on the type flow-hood, grade of filter, how well the F/H is designed & functions. Not to mention, exactly what it is you are doing in it, how carefully you are & if you use good procedures.

I tested mine multiple times - with fresh PDA agar petri's - completely exposed a full 15 full seconds. Contamination rate was negligible.

That said. If it is some important - well planned - carefully thing - I'm doing & isn't a massive project. I use my still air glove G/B, instead of the F/H.

But, if its some massive - 50 bag inoculation procedure, or many many G2G transfers, I use the F/H.



Big Bertha. Main filter is ULPA, stacked prefilter is HEPA, with a triple & thick furnace type filters over that, as dust & bug catchers.



Set up to work, I run a Simco in the room 20 minutes, while the F/H purges & spray oust, like it's free. Plus wear a clean lab coat, gloves, hair cover cap & surgical grade mask.

(LOL, when the gorgeous women in my life see's me with that outfit on, she giggles & wants to know if I want to play OBGYN).


--------------------


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