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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #4709816 - 09/25/05 02:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i know but christianity for example, even though is has been corrupted, still contains some of jesus's wisdom so it can still lead people in the right general direction.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Deviate]
    #4709846 - 09/25/05 03:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

That could happen but it would be quite risky IMO. Having grown up in the Christian system, I see it more as a tool of govt.

All the good it provides can be had without any of the dangers. So why mess with it?


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #4709873 - 09/25/05 03:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What is the positive side to religion? I mean one that you could not accomplish just as easy without religion.



Religion served to unite primitive societies under a common set of beliefs. This was necessary to create a sort of mechanical solidarity among people who were otherwise rather autonomous. As society became more complex with the division of labor, people became increasingly interdependent, and thus mechanical solidarity was overshadowed by a more organic solidarity. This means religion is much less necessary in our current society. However, there are certain groups which still long for a mechanical solidarity, and choose religion as a means to find that. This is why immigrants often find their community within the church.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #4709879 - 09/25/05 03:07 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

well i agree and i don't mess with it, im just saying that it has a positive side even if its outweighed by the negative.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4709894 - 09/25/05 03:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
What is the positive side to religion? I mean one that you could not accomplish just as easy without religion.



Religion served to unite primitive societies under a common set of beliefs.  This was necessary to create a sort of mechanical solidarity among people who were otherwise rather autonomous.  As society became more complex with the division of labor, people became increasingly interdependent, and thus mechanical solidarity was overshadowed by a more organic solidarity.  This means religion is much less necessary in our current society.  However, there are certain groups which still long for a mechanical solidarity, and choose religion as a means to find that.  This is why immigrants often find their community within the church.




Well, if you want to call that positive. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Icelander]
    #4710663 - 09/25/05 06:19 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Positive and negative are subjective. Religion is positive towards conformity and unification in society, but this positive is a negative to the contrast of individuality and free thinking without punishment. For every positive, there's a negative.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Ravus]
    #4710685 - 09/25/05 06:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Positive and negative are subjective. Religion is positive towards conformity and unification in society, but this positive is a negative to the contrast of individuality and free thinking without punishment. For every positive, there's a negative.




The article itself said:

"As with many drugs, refined Gerin oil in low doses is largely harmless, and can even serve as a social lubricant on occasions such as marriages, funerals and ceremonies of state."

I'd say religion is fairly safe if used in moderation.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4710707 - 09/25/05 06:29 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Even small doses of religion can be harmful to logic. But many people think it's worth the sacrifice it seems.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Ravus]
    #4710751 - 09/25/05 06:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

are you sure? if someone is logical i don't see how being exposed to small doses religion would change that, if anything it would only get them thinking more. especially the more logical religion like buddhism.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Ravus]
    #4710752 - 09/25/05 06:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Even small doses of religion can be harmful to logic. But many people think it's worth the sacrifice it seems.



Yes. I'm fine with doing some damage to my body with drugs because I don't care about living to be 100. By the same token, others may not care to be the next Stephen Hawking, and thus are ok with damaging their logic somewhat.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Deviate]
    #4710772 - 09/25/05 06:43 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
especially the more logical religion like buddhism.



I'm taking a class on Buddhism right now, and you'd be amazed at how much magic and superstition there is in that religion. The tale of Siddhartha's birth says that he was birthed not out of her vagina like a normal birth, but rather out of her side, and that he could immediately stand and walk upright as well as speak, and that lotus flowers grew in his steps. Buddhism is filled with such myths. The more philosophical aspects of Buddhism to which us Westerners are usually exposed only accounts for a small part of Buddhist beliefs.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4710826 - 09/25/05 06:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The Bubbhist myths are usually metaphorical and not taken literally.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #4710830 - 09/25/05 06:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
The Bubbhist myths are usually metaphorical and not taken literally.



You sure about that?


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4710847 - 09/25/05 07:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, same thing with the Hindus I believe.

Ask you teacher if they take their stories of creation literally like most Christan's do.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #4710861 - 09/25/05 07:08 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think you're giving people too much credit for being rational. Sure, the well-educated and scholars may not take the stories literally, but go among the population of a Buddhist country and ask peasants if they believe these stories actually happened. I'm pretty sure most will say yes. That seems to be the pattern with pretty much any religion.


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4710863 - 09/25/05 07:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Ask your teacher for me, I'd like to know what he says.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #4710871 - 09/25/05 07:12 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm sure she'll say something along the lines of what I said. She's frequently emphasized the point in class that Buddhism is like any other religion in its mystical and magical beliefs, and that our perception of it as a rational and philosophical religion is skewed.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4711062 - 09/25/05 08:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

oh i'm well aware of the buddhist mystical ideas but you need to consider the context in which i said that. remember the buddha said

""Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

this seems in contrast to the more faith based approach that modern christianity has taken and this is what leads people to consider buddhism a more rational or logical religion. there are other examples too, like buddhists are generally open to beleif of other religions while christians tend more toward the beleif that only their religion is right. buddhists also usually admit that were science or factual evidence to prove them wrong about something they would accept it while many christians tend to hold on to their literal intperpretations of the bible. so i hope you can see why some people might consider buddhism a more logical religion and i think they are are justified in doing so. there are also schools of buddhism that don't emphasize philosophical systems at all and only stress practise like zen.

at any rate i was trying to say that i didnt think exposing someone to a small amount of buddhism would harm their logical ability.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Deviate]
    #4711424 - 09/25/05 10:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Exposing someone to any religion won't do anything to their logic, but most aspects of most religions are based on faith, which is contrary to logic. Exposure does nothing, but to incorporate the religion as truth is when problems can occur (if you consider them that). You can't logically think about God, because logic will get you nowhere; you have to have simple faith. And having faith in this aspect will thereby affect other logical beliefs in a shockwave of effects, since the results of such an eye-opening "truth" would affect mostly every logical deduction in the mind.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is 'Gerin oil' the root of all evil? [Re: Ravus]
    #4712973 - 09/26/05 07:40 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

My logic is quite intact, thank you very much, and can be relied on when necessary. At the same time, I do not live like a fictional Vulcan, my personality is run through with faith - a non-rational (Note: not irrational), contemplative mode of apperception. I passed my course in Boolean algebra/symbolic logic with a grade of 'A' some 30 years ago when my personality was 'jelling.' Faith coexists with logic and is no way inimical or destructive of logical thinking. Transcendental factors which I choose to place at the Center of my being are Transrational and govern my life in a global way but do not interfere with management of the minutia of my life: tidy, well kept home, no financial debt whatsoever, monetary planning/investments, intact personal hygiene, relevant occupation to personality, no thought disorders, etc.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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