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Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for...
    #4700194 -

Diploid has stated that almost all the UFO events he has heard of are explainable, well me and the rest of the world are still waiting for a good explaination for any of this:

Evidence of unexplainable close encounters:

Case 1:
The Pascagoula incident involved two men, nineteen-year-old Calvin Parker and forty-two-year-old Charles Hickson, both of Gautier, Mississippi, who were fishing in the Pascagoula River when they heard a buzzing noise behind them. Both turned and were terrified to see a ten-foot-wide, eight-foot-high, glowing egg-shaped object with blue lights at its front hovering just above the ground about forty feet from the riverbank. As the, men frozen with fright, watched, adoor appeared in the object, and three strange Beings floated just above the river towards them.

The Beings had legs but did not use them. They were about five feet tall, had bullet-shaped heads without necks, slits for mouths; and where their noses or ears would be, they had thin, conical objects sticking out, like carrots from a snowman's head. They had no eyes, gray, wrinkled skin, round feet, and clawlike hands. Two of the beings seized Hickson; when the third grabbed Parker, the teenager fainted with fright. Hickson claimed that when the Beings placed their hands under his arms, his body became numb, and that then they floated him into a brightly lit room in the UFO's interior, where he was subjected to a medical examination with an eyelike device which, like Hickson himself, was floating in midair. At the end of the examination, the Beings simply left Hickson floating, paralyzed but for his eyes, and went to examine Parker, who, Hickson believed was in another room. Twenty minutes after Hickson had first observed the UFO, he was floated back outside and released. He found Parker weeping and praying on the ground near him. Moments later, the object rose straight up and shot out of sight.

Expecting only ridicule if they were to tell anyone what had happened, Hickson and Parker initially decided to keep quiet; but then, because they felt the government might or ought, to know about it, they telephoned Kessler Air Force Base in Biloxi. A sergeant there told them to contact the sheriff. But uncertain about the reception their bizarre story might get from the local law, they drove to the local newspaper office to speak with a reporter. When they found the office closed, Hickson and Parker felt they had no alternative but to talk to the sheriff.

The sheriff, after listening to their story, put Hickson and Parker in a room wired for sound in the belief that if the two men were left alone, they would reveal their hoax; of course, they did not. The local press reported their tale; the wire services picked it up; and within several days the Pascagoula close encounter was major news all over the country. The Aerial Phenomena Research Organisation (APRO), founded in 1952, sent University of California engineering professor James Harder to Mississippi to investigate; J. Allen Hynek, representing the Air Force, also arrived. Together they interviewed the witnesses. Harder hypnotized Hickson but had to terminate the session when Hickson became too frightened to continue.

Hickson and Parker both subsequently passed lie detector tests. Hynek and Harder believed the two men's story. And Hynek was later quoted as saying, 'There was definately something here that was not terrestrial.'

Case 2:
'A Doubly Witnessed Abduction,' is the account of a women Budd Hopkins calls Linda Cortile, who was abducted from her New York City apartement at 3:15am in late November 1989. 'Accompanied by three aliens,' Hopkins reports, 'Linda was floated out of a window twelve stories above the ground, then up into a hovering UFO. The event was witnessed by two security agents and the senior political figure they were guarding, as well as by a woman driving across the Brooklyn Bridge. 'The importance of this case is virtually immeasurable,' Hopkins points out, 'as it powerfully supports both the objective reality of UFO abductions and the accuracy of regressive hypnosis as employed with this abductee.'

According to Hopkins, the two security men were driving the political official along South Street near the Brooklyn Bridge beneath the FDR Drive in Manhattan when their cars electrical system inexplicably cut out and they coasted to a stop. They could detect a reddish-orange glow through their cars windshield. At first, the security agent Hopkin calls Dan thought the glow was the rising sun; but almost immediately he was not facing East but due West. Peering up through the windshield, Dan and his partner 'Richard', saw a fifty-foot-wide, oval-shaped object with rotating colored lights hovering above a fifteen-story apartment building at the street corner about five hundred feet ahead.

Richard pulled a pair of binoculars out of the cars glove compartment, and, as he watched, the craft - now making a barely audible low humming sound - descended until it was level with the top of the apat-ment building. All sound then stopped. A bright beam of blue-white light shot out from the bottom of the craft, and then, to the horror of the three men in the car, they saw a woman in a white nightgown float out of a window on the apartment buildings twelfth floor, accompanied by three small creatures with big heads... (It goes on)

'Please respect our credibility at work,' Richard wrote Hopkins. 'We cannot let our identities be made public.' He expressed his shock at what he had seen, adding, 'This whole situation flies in the face of everthing I've ever believed or knew about.' He wrote of the stages of anger, fear, and embarrassment he had passed through. 'The manner they took her drove us nuts! What could we do to help her? Who was she? Was she one of them?'

Hopkins thought Richards question 'Was she one of them?' a particularly interesting reaction. 'Its a measure of how much they pushed the whole thing away,' he later told me, 'to assume - at least on one level - that maybe she's one of them. Its almost as if they're saying, "I don't want to think she's a human being and we should have done something." Its easier to think of her as part of the whole business.'

Case 3:
'UFO's in history'

Swiss scholar Samuel Coccius witnesses 'numerous large black discs in the sky' in Nuremberg 1561. He states 'Suddenly, they started racing towards the sun with great speed, with some turned towards each other as though in combat. Some were seen to turn a fiery red and then vanish.'

April 19, 1897, in Leroy, Kansas. That night Alexander Hamilton, a former congressman turned farmer, was awakened by sounds of disturbance among his cattle. He quickly dressed, went outside, and 'to my utter astonishment,' he subsequently reported, he observed 'an airship descending over my cow lot.' Hamilton rushed back inside to awake his son and his hired man. The men picked up axes and raced outside. Hamilton estimated that the 'airship' was approximately three hundred feet long. As they watched, the craft descended until it was no more than thirty feet off the ground. 'It was brightly lit within,' Hamilton noted, he added thsat the undercarriage 'was occupied by six of the strangest beings I ever saw.'

During the battle between the Saxons and the Franks at Sigisburg in AD, 776 fiery aerial phenomena appeared overhead in the shape of military shields.

In AD 1118 Emporer Constantine observed a fiery cross in the sky.

I can continue these cases forever but believe the major points should now be apparent.

Other UFO/Alien cases I suggest you research, should you take interest:
Travis Walton Incident
Barney and Betty Hill
Foo Fighters



If you attempt to debunk the entire of this huge phenomena as mass hallucination, deception etc then I will asume you prefer to remain ignorance due to fear of the unknown. Oh and personally I do not think all crop circles are Alien made, they are man made, and I do not believe every account of alien abduction ever recorded either.

Cases were quoted precisely from the book:
Close encounters of the fourth kind
by
C.D.B. Bryan

This book is a good read and gives an unbiased study of all posabilities involved with this phenomena.

Swami said - Why don't astronomers see UFO's, I say why doesn't Swami see that astronomers do and have seen UFO's

http://www.xdream.freeserve.co.uk/UFOBase/Astronomers.htm

Debunking the 'All UFO pictures are grainy' rubbish
http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/photohome.asp

Evidence of the suppression of UFO information by our government:
British Military 'Suppressed UFO Information'

By Pete Harrison

LONDON (Reuters) - The British government tried to cover up one of the country's most famous sightings of an unidentified flying object, a parliamentary watchdog ruled Tuesday.

The "Rendlesham Files," which were finally published on the Internet Sunday, contain eyewitness accounts by U.S. Air Force officers at a military base close to Rendlesham Forest, near Ipswich in eastern England, who saw a brilliantly lit object land in the forest in December 1980.

The incident is widely regarded as one of the most significant-ever UFO sightings -- the British equivalent of the 1947 incident in which a spacecraft supposedly crashed at Roswell, New Mexico, with aliens aboard.

Several people had complained to the British parliamentary ombudsman, Ann Abraham, that the Ministry of Defense had refused to divulge full details of the Rendlesham witness accounts.

Abraham ruled the ministry had "withheld three documents relating to reported sightings of unexplained aerial phenomena in 1980 -- the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident."

A ministry spokeswoman however said the files had not been deliberately withheld and had always been available to anyone who asked.

In late December 1980, U.S. officers investigating what they thought must be a crashed plane in the forest saw a triangular "strange glowing object" that sent farm animals into a frenzy.

"The object was described as being metallic in appearance and triangular in shape, approximately two to three meters across the base and approximately two meters high," reads a report in the file by Deputy Base Commander Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt.

"It illuminated the entire forest with a white light," he added. "The object itself had a pulsing red light on top and a bank of blue lights underneath. The object was hovering, or on legs."

Skeptics say the witnesses were merely seeing the beam from a lighthouse on the nearby coast.

But the report adds that the next day three depressions seven feet in diameter were found in the grass and that readings of beta and gamma radiation were ten times higher than normal. Disturbances were also noted on airforce radar at the time.

Later in the night, a second UFO was seen, described as a red sun-like light. "At one point it appeared to throw off glowing particles and then broke into five separate white objects," said the file.

A Ministry of Defense (MoD) memo in the file notes that: "No evidence was found of any threat to the defense of the United Kingdom. In the absence of any hard evidence, the MoD remains open minded."

Until last week, only around 20 members of the public had seen the file. The government said it would also be publishing other files on reported UFO sightings on www.mod.uk.

The Rendlesham File contains an MoD memo suggesting British requests for audio tapes made by the American officers at the time were brushed aside by the U.S. Later reports by UFO enthusiasts claimed that photographs and tapes were taken away by senior U.S. officers.

More...

You think they might be hiding something from us?

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/10/22/ufo.records/


By Richard Stenger
CNN
Tuesday, October 22, 2002 Posted: 3:09 PM EDT (1909 GMT)

(CNN) -- One winter night in 1965, eyewitnesses saw a fireball streak over North America, bank, turn and appear to crash in western Pennsylvania. Then swarms of military personnel combed the area and a tarp-covered flatbed truck rumbled out of the woods.

Now a former White House chief of staff and an international investigative journalist want to know what the Pentagon knows, calling on it to release classified files about that and other incidents involving unidentified flying objects, or UFOs.

"It is time for the government to declassify records that are more than 25 years old and to provide scientists with data that will assist in determining the real nature of this phenomenon," ex-Clinton aide John Podesta said Tuesday.

A Pentagon spokesperson could not be reached for comment regarding the requests for information.

Despite earning little credence, cases of strange aerial phenomena that defy explanation abound -- whether witnessed by thousands of Arizona residents, commercial airline pilots or a U.S. president.

The new initiative is not setting out to prove the existence of aliens. Rather the group wants to legitimize the scientific investigation of unexplained aerial phenomena.

Podesta was one of numerous political and media heavyweights on hand in Washington, D.C., to announce a new group to gain access to secret government records about UFOs.

Specifically, the Coalition for Freedom of Information (CFI) is pressing the Air Force for documents involving Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly, clandestine operations reported to have existed decades ago to investigate UFOs and retrieve objects of unknown origins.

Mysterious case?
One of the most mysterious cases, the Kecksburg, Pennsylvania incident of December 5, 1965, is the first cited in the group's request for records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).

Despite an official government story that the object was a meteorite, some eyewitnesses claimed that a military truck took an acorn-shaped object the size of a small car from the rural Pennsylvania crash site to an Air Force base in Ohio.

"We can't come up with a reason why this information is being withheld. The government won't even acknowledge that the incident took place but we know that it did," said Leslie Kean, a California-based freelance reporter who drafted the FOIA request.

In the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, the government did take the UFO search seriously and top generals considered the pros and cons of informing the U.S. public, Kean said, citing top secret memos.

In 1969, however, the Air Force terminated Project Blue Book, concluding that no reported UFOs were threats to national security.

Paradoxically, Kean notes, the military continues to deny some requests for UFO information by citing national security concerns.

Trying to stamp out ridicule
Backed by the Sci-Fi channel, the CFI hopes to reduce the scientific ridicule factor in this country when the topic is UFOs.

"There's definitely evidence of strange phenomenon in the world. These are well documented," said Kean, who has written for The Nation, the Boston Globe and the International Herald Tribune.

"Most people don't think that there is evidence because they haven't look for it. There's such a little green men mindset in this culture. It's hard to work your way through that."




I know many of you will not believe. If this is the case then I CHALLENGE YOU.  Instead of picking holes in the technicalities of my wording  get off your PC tonight and stand outside in a place where you arnt hampered by street lamps and watch the sky from 11.30 PM until 3.00am This is the peak time for activity and there are more of them than ever at the moment. One session will be enough to see many examples of the activity. If all us fishermen can see it then anyone in the northern hemisphere will be able too.


NASA videos of 'diploids satelites' :smirk:

http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/videoclips/index.htm
http://www.andromedafree.it/ufo/video/file1/galleria1.htm
http://www.rickrichards.com/ufo
Note: Old links - hope they work still

No physical evidence - yeah right
http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/PhysicalTraceCases.htm

And too top it off heres proof of prevailant beliefs eventually being over-turned

A few quotes from histories great skepics:
Lord Kelvin British physicist - "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

Robert Millikan Nobel Prize physicist - "There is no likelyhood that man can ever tap the power of the atom."

Dr F.R. Moulton University of Chicago astronomer - "there is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the moon because of insurmountable barriers to escaping the Earth's gravity."


There you have it, I've started your work for you, now go and find the rest of the research yourself and stop complaining that we don't give you any links!!!

Diploids expected response -
1. Attack a source - Ignoring the amount of data throughout mankinds history
2. Ignore or diversion - Talk about something else instead of coming up with a good explaination for the vast amount of data
3. Hoax fraud claim - Claim its all a hoax, despite children witnessing these events, despite astronomers, pilots and many famous scientists
4. Nobody knows diversion - Despite stating that 'science works by making theories on available data' himself!
5. Attack technicality - Find error in poster or wording for use as diversion


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Edited by danoEoboy (09/23/05 04:36 PM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4700215 -

:popcorn:


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4700308 -

good collection
certainly piques my interest.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: daimyo]
    #4700325 -

Ur gonna need it for this one :smile: lol

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4700480 -

of the three cases, 1 and 2 are pretty much worthless as evidence, though the third one might be interesting if researched further.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: vampirism]
    #4700664 -

You forgot the Syrius/Dogon/Nommo stuff, its kind of hard to explain how a completely disconnected tribal society could have known about a star not visible to the naked eye before any other society.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4701520 -

:smile:
http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/sky1/sky1part1.htm

Edited by danoEoboy (09/23/05 04:58 PM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4701749 -

Bob, St.Albans
Siobhan...calling these things rubbish is a basic form of defence, against the fear of a possibility that the phenomenon is a reality. You obviously don't want to know, and thats fine. Don't, however, make silly, uninformed and rash statements unless you've taken a considerable look at the enigma. the phenomenon does exist, of that there is no doubt at all. The problem for us as investigative researchers, is establishing exactly WHAT it is, what the nature of the enimga is...and 'rubbish' isn't one of the answers.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4702030 -

I am sure Diploid hasn't replied yet because he is overwhelmed with the evidence presented here and is speechless in the face of the enormity of it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4702049 -

:rofl:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4702779 -

Case 1:

The Pascagoula incident boils down to two guys' story and the famous polygraph test.

First the story; it was uncorroborated. Nobody else saw anything unusual in the sky before or after the claimed abduction, there were no radar returns from any air traffic control facility, and there was no physical evidence, bruises, ripped clothing, or other evidence of the two abductees being 'probed'.

The abductees hired a lawyer (they needed a lawyer?) who they referred to as their 'agent'. It's interesting to note that the abductees subsequently made a tidy fortune with talk show appearances and a book deal brokered by their 'agent'.

As for the polygraph, it was set up by the abductees' agent. He was offered a polygraph examination for free by the experienced polygraph examiner Charles Wimberly of the Mobile, AL police department. The agent declined Wimberly's offer. Instead, he imported an inexperienced polygraph examiner from a polygraph school 100 miles away in New Orleans who had not yet completed his polygraph training, had not yet been licensed as a polygraph examiner, and had no experience as he was still in polygraph school. Additionally, it turned out that the student polygraph examiner worked for a friend of the agent.

If the people involved in this case were after the truth rather than lucrative talk show and book deals, they would have used a qualified and experienced polygraph examiner instead of a student.

Case 2:

Another story with no corroborating evidence. Conveniently, the two guards and the big-wig politician they were guarding asked to remain anonymous making their testimony in this story useless.

The 'woman driving across the Brooklyn Bridge' who witnessed the abduction is also conveniently unnamed.

Despite the 24/7 traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge and nearby FDR Drive, not a single other person reported seeing anything unusual and there was no flood of calls to the local police department as you'd expect if a woman floated out of a 12th story window into a hovering UFO next to the Brooklyn Bridge!

Case 3:

Assorted stories by people long ago dead and with no corroborating evidence of any kind. My little nephew's story of seeing the Tooth Fairy and apostles' claims of seeing Jesus rise from the dead (even though nobody else saw him) are at home among these stories.

Swami said - Why don't astronomers see UFO's, I say why doesn't Swami see that astronomers do and have seen UFO's

People camping with telescopes, which this link is mostly a catalog of, are not astronomers. Can you provide a link to a peer-reviewed professional astronomers' journal detailing UFO sightings? This is what Swami was referring to: real astronomers, not campers with telescopes.

Diploids expected response

Are you going to point out my bad haircut and suggest it invalidates my reasoning next or will you surprise me and argue your case on its merits instead??

1. Attack a source

LMAO at the irony...

Debunking the 'All UFO pictures are --grainy--' rubbish
http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/photohome.asp

Ahahah! That's a good one! I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I clicked that.

This is pic on the FRONT PAGE of that site. :rofl:


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4703015 -

You forgot the Syrius/Dogon/Nommo stuff, its kind of hard to explain how a completely disconnected tribal society could have known about a star not visible to the naked eye before any other society.

No, actually it's easy to explain:

About one of every three stars in the sky is a binary star. As it happens, Sirius, the star in question, is a binary. Sirius is also the brightest star in the sky as seen from Earth, though it's companion is very dim.

The Dogon have always been aware that some stars are binary. The stars Alcor and Mizar in the middle of the Big Dipper's handle, for example, is a binary which can be seen by someone with good eyes under dark skies.

If Sirius were not a binary, nobody would mention that the Dogon ET mythology was wrong. It happens to be a binary, so UFO proponents hold it up as a startling example of alien visitation in an ancient mythology. Nevermind that if the Dogon had picked any other star at random, they would still have had a one in three chance of picking a binary. That they picked Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, is not surprising and that Sirius is binary is a not-so-unlikely (one in three chance) coincidence.

Critical thinkers come to this explanation rather than that ET visited the Dogon...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (09/24/05 01:54 AM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4703784 -

Well as predicted you've gone for the expected responses.

So you looked at one photo on the front page, I knew you'd do that.

Just proves that you have judged before researching because theirs some very good photos on that site.



"People camping with telescopes, which this link is mostly a catalog of, are not astronomers. Can you provide a link to a peer-reviewed professional astronomers' journal detailing UFO sightings? This is what Swami was referring to: real astronomers, not campers with telescopes."

Outright lies eh? Look at these happy campers:

Famous astronomer, Edmund Halley
Charles Messier, famous for his nebula catalogue
The famous astronomer, Frederick William Herschel, who discovered the planet Uranus
Francis Arago, the famous French Physicist/Astronomer


There you have it, proof that Diploid would rather believe his unfounded decision than stay open-minded and spend some time doing some unbiased research.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4703790 -

Diploid said:
No, actually it's easy to explain:

Critical thinkers come to this explanation rather than that ET visited the Dogon...



This still does not explain how they knew of a star that they could not see or why there ancestors would lie that an 'ark' came from the heavens with beings that gave them that knowledge. Very critical.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4703822 -

Diploid said:
Case 1:

The Pascagoula incident boils down to two guys' story and the famous polygraph test.

First the story; it was uncorroborated. Nobody else saw anything unusual in the sky before or after the claimed abduction, there were no radar returns from any air traffic control facility, and there was no physical evidence, bruises, ripped clothing, or other evidence of the two abductees being 'probed'.


They blatently stated they went to the police station days later. Do you still expect them to have the same clothes on???
Besides one of them was unconcious so there would be no need to rip there clothes.

Did you just make this shit up as you go along or do you have a source???

Ignore or diversion - Talk about something else instead of coming up with a good explaination for the vast amount of data.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4703848 -

This folks here is when a critical thinker becomes and evidence and logic dodger...


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4704003 -

K, Dippy
Explain this one,

http://www.travis-walton.com/

November 5, 1975 in the town Snowflake, Arizona. Travis Walton works as a logger in the woods. When he and his colleagues drive home after work, they encounter an UFO. For the next five days Travis disappears and his colleagues are accused of murder...

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4704038 -

danoEoboy said:
Outright lies eh? Look at these happy campers:

Famous astronomer, Edmund Halley
Charles Messier, famous for his nebula catalogue
The famous astronomer, Frederick William Herschel, who discovered the planet Uranus
Francis Arago, the famous French Physicist/Astronomer


There you have it, proof that Diploid would rather believe his unfounded decision than stay open-minded and spend some time doing some unbiased research.


Let's take a look at when those people lived:

Edmond Halley 1656 ?1742
Charles Messier 1730 ? 1817
Wilhelm Friedrich Herschel 1738 ? 1822
Fran?ois Jean Dominique Arago 1786 ? 1853

Science was at a total different level at that time. There was no evolution theory, no special and general relativity, no quantum mechanics, no sense of the size of the Universe, no precise idea of the distance of the stars, no idea what happens in stars, no idea of the age of earth, the solar system and our galaxy, etc, etc, etc.

This just doesn't say anything about the views of modern astronomers.

There was not much known 200-300 years ago, they made all kind of weird hypothesises to explain things the experienced. Edmond Halley was a great physicist and astronomer, but his alien theory was a weird one. He thought that the earth was hollow with four different globes in it with aliens living there. That is like total bullshit according to what we know NOW.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4704266 -

And no satelites to blame UFO on either.

By the way as the Dogon have proved, we have known a hell of alot about stars and space for a long time.

None of the theories you mention have anything to do with the fact that people see flying saucers.


Modern astronomers realise the stigma the UFO/alien theory has, so they don't like to get involved.

If I was an astronomer or scientist I wouldn't want to discredit my reputation and job by becoming a focus for stigma, either.


Besides, the whole picture still remains. A huge phenomena that has no reasonable explaination.

The most reasonable theory/explaination for all of this is aliens, simply by the weight of evidence in favour.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4704386 -

Quote:
By the way as the Dogon have proved, we have known a hell of alot about stars and space for a long time.


Nah, they didn't know much about stars in the 17th century. Nothing compared to what we know now.  Robert Temple wrote a book bout the Dogon people and said they had contact with aliens to get their knowledge. :confused:
Quote:
None of the theories you mention have anything to do with the fact that people see flying saucers.


True, but it explains why people came up with theories that sound weird to modern science. Like a hollow earth. There were just more things that were not explained yet, so there was more room for creative science fiction like theories.

Quote:
Modern astronomers realise the stigma the UFO/alien theory has, so they don't like to get involved.

If I was an astronomer or scientist I wouldn't want to discredit my reputation and job by becoming a focus for stigma, either.


So you agree that modern astronomers don't (openly) say that they see flying saucers and think it are Aliens? It is a stigma for good reasons IMHO. There are just too many questions that can't be answered with only pictures and stories and there are way more simple explanations for the pictures and stories than Aliens.

Quote:
The most reasonable theory/explanation for all of this is aliens, simply by the weight of evidence in favour.



No, not at all. It is not the most reasonable explanation, it does not explain why they are here, why they always fly in flying saucers, why they only talk with people who have strong believes in Aliens, why flying saucers give light in the dark, why people who don't believe in them never see them, why they never land in big cities, etc, etc.

I actually isn't an explanation at all. The theories "it's just a bird" or "a spot on the lens" or "someone used photoshop" or "someone made up a story" or "someone was hallucinating" explain everything and are very logic and simple. Why is it more reasonable that it are aliens than that someone photoshoped it?

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4704537 -

Pictures from http://www.ufoevidence.org/photographs/photohome.asp :


It can be a drop or some dust on the lens.

I've been there and there are always hundreds of tourists with photo and video cameras around the Piramids in Giza. There would have been way more pictures and video evidence of this if it was not just created by the camera. The lady at the bottem left of the picture is not very exicted for someone seeing a Alien ship.



It's fake, photoshopped.

They actually found out that this picture was photoshopped. Because it was a picture that appeared in a magazine or something so there were more people who could check if it was real or not. This does not happen with private pictures, but it does show that there are people who like to photoshop pictures. The theory that all pictures are fake and photoshopped is far more likely than the Alien theory, because there is lots of evidence that people do fake pictures and there is no evidence whatsoever that there are Aliens in there.





I zoomed in on the white spot and lowered the brightness and added some contrast, you can see a lighter square around the light dot. This picture might have been taken from inside and what you see is a window reflecting in the window, with a candle or something in front of it. This happens a lot when I take pictures from inside through a window.

It can also be a (frozen)drop on the lens or an error on the CCD of the camera, part of a lens flare or dust on the lens.



Again a very little spot, zooming in on that doesn't make sense because it is a JPG picture and the camera might have interpolated pixels. It can be something on the lens, some other light effect or an error of the camera. Thousands of people should have seen this if it was part of the real world and not an effect of the camera.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4704559 -

Admit it Diploid!!! All you have got are facts! Those will never stand up to anecdotal, eyewitness accounts. Denying the conspiracy only proves it's existance!!!


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4704974 -


That is how a bird looks like on a picture when it flies fast and the exposure time of the camera is not super short.



This is a picture of a random light. A train in a tunnel? A motorcycle on a road? A lamp in the dark?



Again a picture of some lights. Can be any lights. Might as well be the christmas tree of the neighbours.



Clean your lens before making pictures dude!



An airplane leaving a black trail because it vaporizes the cloud it is flying through. This is a known effect of airplanes.



Photoshop. Actually a very bad photoshop job.



We see another picture of a light. Can be any light. Did you know there are many lights on earth?



This has been proven to be burning oil at sea. Go here for more information.



Jesus man, that's how a goose looks like on a picture when it's flying and when the camera isn't focused on it.



He look, a BIRD! Never seen these things called birds? They are interesting, they are heavier than air and can fly. Wonderfull creatures, but not from another galaxy.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4705057 -

After reading your posts, title and sig I think your believe is a result of wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is interpreting facts, reports, events, perceptions, etc., according to what one would like to be the case rather than according to the actual evidence.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4705095 -

The aliens are here, man.

The universe is highly populated.

Denying it doesn't change anything


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705190 -

Neither does the lack of evidence I presume?

So I might as well give up all logic and the search for evidence and just take your word for it, Shroomism.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705242 -

But denying what? People keep piling on anecdote after anecdote, and "evidence" like a dot on a photograph.

We don't just want anecdotes. Bring a well known skeptic to one of these places where you're seeing UFOs constantly. Get some video, at least, showing these spectacular displays you're saying are so common. We've got video cameras everwhere on the planet, the wackiest events are getting caught on camera.

Think of how often someone gets brutally hit in the nuts. Every now and then, but you could go for months, even years at a time without seeing it happen to anyone. Judging by the way you describe it, you see UFOs more frequently than that. How many times has video of someone getting slammed in the nuts been videotaped? Ever watch America's Funniest Home Videos?

You guys say this stuff is happening all over the place, all the time, in much greater clarity than in the photographs we see... yet NOBODY caught it on film?

You have to admit, that's at least kind of suspicious that nobody is getting anything decent on tape.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705262 -

I'm more suspicious of all the decent stuff on tape that is supressed/officially debunked. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705286 -

The aliens ARE here!



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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705316 -

Nobody has given me the joy of coming to the rational conclusion that it is likely that it are Aliens. I really hope they are ETs, I would love that. That would be super uber duper cool! But I can't make myself believe in that based on black dots on pictures.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705331 -


I'm more suspicious of all the decent stuff on tape that is supressed/officially debunked. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

Lack of evidence isn't evidence that stuff is being supressed either.

"There isn't any good evidence, therefore the government is hiding it all."

Nowadays you can film anything at home, and have it all over the internet in no time. It's not like there would be a race against time while you try to convince UFO websites that your video is legit, just email it to a few people, post it on a big website and you're off to the races.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4705346 -

Understandable. But combine the many ancient texts with descriptions of sentient beings coming from flaming chariots in the sky with the dogon tribe plus the millions of personal encounters with these beings, the many government documents, taking into account the infinite vastness that is our universe, and our technology level, being at a pretty low level in human evolution.. combine that with all the black dots on pictures, and it's not hard to imagine a different scenario. Earth is highly populated with life, and we are one planet, in a minor solar system (which we have not left), on the outer reaches of the Milky Way. A galaxy containing some 200 billion stars.. billions or trillions of galaxies existing that are known> logic and rational thinking tells me we are not alone.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705366 -

Phluck said:
You have to admit, that's at least kind of suspicious that nobody is getting anything decent on tape.


Yes, and why don't I ever see anything flying saucer like?  :frown: :mad2: Please abduct me Aliens! I'll pay for it!

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705399 -

Shroomism said:
Understandable. But combine the many ancient texts with descriptions of sentient beings coming from flaming chariots in the sky with the dogon tribe plus the millions of personal encounters with these beings, the many government documents, taking into account the infinite vastness that is our universe, and our technology level, being at a pretty low level in human evolution.. combine that with all the black dots on pictures, and it's not hard to imagine a different scenario. Earth is highly populated with life, and we are one planet, in a minor solar system (which we have not left), on the outer reaches of the Milky Way. A galaxy containing some 200 billion stars.. billions or trillions of galaxies existing that are known> logic and rational thinking tells me we are not alone.


I come to the same conclusion as you. We are almost certain not alone in this universe, but that does not mean that they are HERE and that they are here with flying saucers, only abduct people who believe in Aliens, don't communicate with us in a direct way, don't try to do anything here but be seen on blurry pics and land in some grain fields.

The size of the universe is the problem, it would take a huge amount of time to even travel from the nearest star to our planet.

It sure is possible, but I just don't think the black dot pics are good evidence of this.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705410 -

We're an imaginative species. We don't need to have aliens visit us to imagine beings coming from the sky. Ever see a shooting star that was really close? It's like a flash of flame across the sky, pretty spectacular.

I don't see why a tribe of people long ago wouldn't have created a story about flaming chariots to explain that.

And aren't the government documents basically just accounts of UFOs? Just because someone sees something they can't explain, and they report it to their superiors, doesn't mean it's an alien, or even something that would suprise us.

What does our technology level have to do with anything? The vastness of the universe is a good argument for aliens existing somewhere out there, but it's not an argument that shows anything are visiting us.

The universe is vast, yet we're to assume that the life that reaches us has anything in common with us? Why wouldn't they be completely different?

Of course it's easy to imagine a different story. We're humans, we're good at imagining, and we love to believe stories that are exciting. That's why people take the bible literally. It's why people love magicians, or watching movies and reading novels.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4705444 -

Shroomism said:
Understandable. But combine the many ancient texts with descriptions of sentient beings coming from flaming chariots in the sky with the dogon tribe plus the millions of personal encounters with these beings, the many government documents, taking into account the infinite vastness that is our universe, and our technology level, being at a pretty low level in human evolution.. combine that with all the black dots on pictures, and it's not hard to imagine a different scenario. Earth is highly populated with life, and we are one planet, in a minor solar system (which we have not left), on the outer reaches of the Milky Way. A galaxy containing some 200 billion stars.. billions or trillions of galaxies existing that are known> logic and rational thinking tells me we are not alone.


Yet logic and rational thinking are based on what we as a human race have learned, and so far we have learned that life is only present on one planet. We're not even 100% positive how molecules turned into protocells on this planet, less likely whether it is reproduceable throughout the universe.

With a sample size of 1, logic doesn't have much of a say on whether there is more out there. Personally, I don't know whether aliens exist, but I'm certainly not going to take the leap of faith and say that they do; it'd be easier to say that no life or consciousness exists outside of earth and wait for any evidence to contradict it.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4705469 -

Annom said:

He look, a BIRD! Never seen these things called birds? They are interesting, they are heavier than air and can fly. Wonderfull creatures, but not from another galaxy.


I'm not one to hysterically espouse Space-alien hype, but just what the hell kind of bird is that?



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705482 -

Quote:
The universe is vast, yet we're to assume that the life that reaches us has anything in common with us? Why wouldn't they be completely different?


Yeah, I think there might be huge, not moving, balls of pure "brains", not our brains, but one with  different kind of connections that create intelligence and consciousness. This ball is so huge and vast that it is uber intelligent and has a uber consciousness, but does nothing but lay on the ground. Haha, it's cool to imagine  :smile:

It's fun that Aliens are always close the earth organisms in films, stories and peoples minds. I don't see any reason why Aliens also need our DNA, breath oxygen, eat, shit and pie like us. There are so many different things that might be able.

Quote:
Of course it's easy to imagine a different story. We're humans, we're good at imagining, and we love to believe stories that are exciting. That's why people take the bible literally. It's why people love magicians, or watching movies and reading novels.



The most exciting stories I've ever heard are scientific theories like Newton's Mechanics and Einsteins General or Special Relativity. Those really rock my world, again and again and again.

Even if they were totally bullshit, it still are brilliant stories. The best thing is that they are a good model of reality.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4705510 -

I'm not one to hysterically espouse Space-alien hype, but just what the hell kind of bird is that?

I'm no expert, but it could be a hawk or something. Both its wings are up, and its beak is clearly visible on the left side...

Looks quite a lot like a bird to me.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705528 -

It looks more like Photoshop to me, since the bird is bigger than the cows.

Unless the camera is at a really weird angle relative to the bird and the cows that would make the bird look like that.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705536 -

What does photographic evidence matter now that we have Photoshop? Any bum could forge a photograph a UFO.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4705545 -

I see the head/neck part, that looks like a Goose.. It's the rest of the body that I'm having a hard time seeing as a bird. It looks like a teenaged mutant ninja turtle with titanium armor on it.




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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ravus]
    #4705618 -

If they're standing at a higher elevation from the cows, and it appears they are, a bird could easily fly past from that perspective.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4705622 -

MushmanTheManic said:
What does photographic evidence matter now that we have Photoshop? Any bum could forge a photograph a UFO.


I was talking about videos.

It's not that easy to realistically forge a video.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4706034 -

Annom said:
It's fun that Aliens are always close the earth organisms in films, stories and peoples minds. I don't see any reason why Aliens also need our DNA, breath oxygen, eat, shit and pie like us. There are so many different things that might be able.



Yes there are. However, the most common form of intelligent physical life in the universe is the Human form. But intelligent life can evolve in many shapes and sizes. Carbon-based, Plasma-based, etc.. It depends on whatever the dominant species was on that planet. It could be a reptile, it could be an insect, it could be a feline.. but usually it's human. The plasma based beings, you wouldn't even consider an intelligent entity until it started talking to you.. it's a blob. There are also many different forms of intelligent species especially after genetic engineering.
If this is my fantasy.. I've got a damn good imagination. Humans are so ignorant, until they learn. We are not so special as to be alone, and the most technologically advanced species in the universe. We are infants on the cosmic scale.. newborns.. evolutionarily speaking. To assume we have it even slightly figured out is a fallacy. To assume that light speed travel is impossible when we know nothing is also a fallacy. There is an infinite universe with a very wide range of intelligent life out there. We are specks. We best learn to get along as a planet and be a little humble before trying to make collective contact to civilizations that have perhaps existed and developed for millions of years beyond our own. Maybe we can learn a thing or two.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4706172 -

Shroomism said:
Understandable. But combine the many ancient texts with descriptions of sentient beings coming from flaming chariots in the sky with the dogon tribe plus the millions of personal encounters with these beings, the many government documents, taking into account the infinite vastness that is our universe, and our technology level, being at a pretty low level in human evolution.. combine that with all the black dots on pictures, and it's not hard to imagine a different scenario. Earth is highly populated with life, and we are one planet, in a minor solar system (which we have not left), on the outer reaches of the Milky Way. A galaxy containing some 200 billion stars.. billions or trillions of galaxies existing that are known> logic and rational thinking tells me we are not alone.


I am convinced that there must be life elsewhere in the universe. But I am equally convinced that the laws of physics would prevent anything that we could recognize as life from travelling the impossibly great distances between stars. It takes light about 3 years to travel to us from our nearest neighboring star, Alpha Centauri. This is light we're talking about -- the fastest thing in the universe. And as far as I know, no planets have been detected on Alpha Centauri, which means that any alien civilization out there lives much further out. I don't care how advanced a civilization is -- they can't beat the laws of physics.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706218 -

This is light we're talking about -- the fastest thing in the universe.
As far as we know so far, with our yet limited understanding of universe...


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4706226 -


If this is my fantasy.. I've got a damn good imagination.

A talking plasma blob isn't so far fetched that nobody could think it up without encountering a real one.

There nothing too weird for you to dream it up. If you can wrap your mind around it, you can dream it up.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4706255 -

Annom said:
After reading your posts, title and sig I think your believe is a result of wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking is interpreting facts, reports, events, perceptions, etc., according to what one would like to be the case rather than according to the actual evidence.


Why would I wish aliens were visiting our planet and taking people against their will?

Why would anyone???

In fact, I think that fear is a prevailant part of the psychology here.

To be honest, I don't think those pictures are good evidence either... :blush:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4706272 -

Shroomism said:
Understandable. But combine the many ancient texts with descriptions of sentient beings coming from flaming chariots in the sky with the dogon tribe plus the millions of personal encounters with these beings, the many government documents, taking into account the infinite vastness that is our universe, and our technology level, being at a pretty low level in human evolution.. combine that with all the black dots on pictures, and it's not hard to imagine a different scenario. Earth is highly populated with life, and we are one planet, in a minor solar system (which we have not left), on the outer reaches of the Milky Way. A galaxy containing some 200 billion stars.. billions or trillions of galaxies existing that are known> logic and rational thinking tells me we are not alone.


Exactly,  :thumbup: The bigger picture certainly suggests et could already be here.

When you see them yourself, you can't deny it.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706313 -

Paradigm said:
I don't care how advanced a civilization is -- they can't beat the laws of physics.


You seem to be missing the point here:

A few quotes from histories great skepics:
Lord Kelvin British physicist - "heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible."

Robert Millikan Nobel Prize physicist - "There is no likelyhood that man can ever tap the power of the atom."

Dr F.R. Moulton University of Chicago astronomer - "there is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the moon because of insurmountable barriers to escaping the Earth's gravity."

Besides, theres other posabilities such as planet hopping. :eek:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4706336 -

I'd love to be wrong about this, but as we rapidly approach a theory of everything, we are still no closer to being able to achieve such feats. Also, supposing an alien civilization were capable of achieving the insurmountable task of interstellar travel, why would they go to all that trouble just to appear in a few blurry photographs? Either they would want to make their presence known, in which case they could simply land in a big city and walk out of their spaceship, or they want to remain unknown, in which case they wouldn't be witnessed by UFO enthusiasts.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706392 -

Watch actual footage taken by Brighton Police over the Sussex skies...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/fun_stuff/weird/ufo.shtml


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706413 -

RAF TRACKS UFOS ON RADAR
http://www.demonhunter.btinternet.co.uk/raftracksufo.htm

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706548 -

Paradigm said:
but as we rapidly approach a theory of everything ... interstellar travel ... walk out of their spaceship ... remain unknown.


i don't care what wiki says on the TOE subject, but we're nowhere close to approaching anything on that subject matter. on the contrary, we seem to get more and more confused the more we try to put together the very small (quantum shit) with the very big (cosomology & general relativity).

also, i would imagine a civilization advanced enough to do the interstellar trip thing would employ some kind of level 5 technology (to put it in shroom trip terms), rather than use stupid spaceships with freezers aboard. moreover, we'd prolly be ants compared to them and how often do you get out of your truck to commune with an anthill when you cross death valley?-)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: qhr0me]
    #4706577 -

It seems to me that any species capable of interstellar travel would be so radically different from us that we couldn't even recognize it as life. I could imagine beings of pure energy accomplishing this task, but they wouldn't need a flying saucer.


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Silversoul]
    #4706624 -

"Pure energy"? So "pure energy" can go faster than the speed of light?

Explain, as you're using energy in that mystical context that many pseudoscientists do, distinguishing it from the four forces of the universe but saying "ENERGY MAN!" as if they expect me to assume their vitalist beliefs.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ravus]
    #4706677 -

Ravus said:
"Pure energy"? So "pure energy" can go faster than the speed of light?


I never said it could. Light is a form of energy. I was merely saying that if it were possible for energy to have consciousness(and thus be a sort of "lifeform") then it could achieve interstellar travel(though we wouldn't be able to recognize it if such beings were here).


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ravus]
    #4706708 -

get with the wormhole program, man!  or learn to surf the crest of the expansion!  500 fucking years from now, you can be sure einstein's relativity laws will be about as cutting edge in terms of space travel as newton's laws of motion apply today at the large hadron collider in geneva!

sure bet, newton's laws are rock solid (in a certain context) and einstein's laws will remain rock solid (in a certain other context), but new contexts pop up all the time, so while "pure energy" traveling at supraluminal speeds may be pseudoscience today, we may very well have matter moving around at warp 10 soon enough.  maybe not in our lifetime, but certainly the shroomery will survive to see it all  :rolleyes:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Shroomism]
    #4706915 -

"The aliens are here, man.

The universe is highly populated.

Denying it doesn't change anything"

The first point is unsuppoted opinion. The second is possible to be true. The third is not logically sound.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: qhr0me]
    #4708507 -

Yeah for sure!

Its rediculous to claim a 'theory of everything'.

Its not like we've met the end of our learning and now we nearly know everything!

I mean just look at Quantum Mechanics, proves we haven't got a fucking clue!!!

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4708520 -

danoEoboy said:
K, Dippy
Explain this one,

http://www.travis-walton.com/

November 5, 1975 in the town Snowflake, Arizona. Travis Walton works as a logger in the woods. When he and his colleagues drive home after work, they encounter an UFO. For the next five days Travis disappears and his colleagues are accused of murder...


Come on guys.  You disappoint me.

You said there was a lack of evidence, now I brng it to you, you have nothing!!!

No explainations, you don't even show up - obviously so you don't dig your hole deeper...


"UFO: Is this best proof yet? Wife gets ?20000 for flying saucer vid - The Star, 1st June 2001"

http://www.alien-uk.com/evidence.htm

And heres yet ANOTHER - to add to your failed debunking chore list  :smirk:


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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4708537 -

No physical evidence Diploid, explain this then:

Ministry of defense detects radiation from landed UFO...

Charles Halt - Commander US base in Bentwaters, England

http://www.alien-uk.com/evidence.htm



ARE YOU GETTING THE POINT YET??? HOW CAN ALL OF THIS BE A HOAX WHEN NOBODY CAN GIVE A GOOD EXPLAINATION FOR ANY OF IT.

YES THERE ARE SOME HOAXED PICTURES BUT HOW DOES THAT DISCREDIT THE ENORMITY OF CONSISTANT EVIDENCE FROM SO MANY RELIABLE SOURCES?

Edited by danoEoboy (09/25/05 04:16 AM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4708541 -

Swami, hue, fireworks ANYONE???

Wheres you debunking now eh?

So ignorant...

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4708609 -

Then theres the MOD expert Nick Pope who, after studing the phenomena for the government, shares my conclusion:

Pope said he started his job as an open-minded skeptic with little interest in the phenomena. After 3 years of working on the subject he's convinced that it is a reality.

Pope believes that many reported observations are best explained as being of extraterrestrial origin.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4708646 -

That makes about as much sense as concluding that many reported observations are best explained as manifestations of god...


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4709129 -

danoEoboy said:
Yeah for sure!

Its rediculous to claim a 'theory of everything'.

Its not like we've met the end of our learning and now we nearly know everything!

I mean just look at Quantum Mechanics, proves we haven't got a fucking clue!!!


The name is actually misleading to those who haven't studied it. They call it a theory of everything because one of the major problems in the universe has been the unification of quantum mechanics with general relativity, so to unify the two into one theory would explain the universe much better as a theory of one than as two separate, contradicting theories. It could also help explain the Big Bang and why particles act like they do, but I wouldn't say it's a theory of everything, just one of the most significant theories (if true) in humanity's history. It's not going to explain why I wear blue jeans instead of khakis on Wednesday, though. :wink:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4709210 -

I think you are a bit naive if you trust people so blindly. Many people like attention and like to fantasize. Science fiction is cool and UFOs are very popular, it's more than logic that there is much semi-evidence to find on the internet. It's fun to fool people. There are so many conspiracy theories as example of what kind of bullshit people come up with.

The problem is that I can't trust something that isn't made public for me, you and scientist, nothing to test, no personal experience and no good video's. Nothing but a bunch of photos and stories on websites I could have made without any problem with my personal computer and photoshop.

Considered how fake many people are, this is IMO a way more logic explanation of the stories and pictures than the Alien theory. I'm not saying that all pictures are photoshopped etc, I just give another theory and ask you why you are so firm a believer of your theory. What makes your theory more likely?

Will you debunk my theory that it's just all photoshopped! Why is your theory more likely?

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Annom]
    #4709315 -


Will you debunk my theory that it's just all photoshopped! Why is your theory more likely?

Because he believes in his theory, and not yours.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4709705 -

Come on guys. You disappoint me.

This is not a one-way debate. I've spent time carefully answering all your questions. You have yet to answer any of mine.

If you want to continue this, you'll have to catch up and answer my questions before you ask any more of me. This is only fair.

Here are a few to get you started:

1. Why did the lawyer for the Pascagoula abductees hire a student polygraph examiner from 100 miles away rather than accept a free polygraph examination from Charles Wimberly of the Mobile, AL police department?

2. Why did a woman floating out of a 12th story window into a hovering UFO next to the heavily-trafficked Brooklyn Bridge and FDR Drive not illicit a flood of phone calls to the local police department?

3. You have yet to provide a link to a journal of professional astronomers containing an article about UFOs. Do you have any evidence that professional astronomers who spend their careers looking into the sky see UFOs?

4. Why do people abducted by UFOs never come back with an alien bacteria or fiber that rubbed off on their clothing?

5. Why would beings so advanced come all the way here, then hide?

6. If these aliens don't want to be seen, why are they seen all the time?

7. If they're advanced enough to exceed the speed of light, how can it be they're so inept as to crash here?

8. What does the government gain by keeping these things secret?

9. Wouldn't the government gain more by revealing these things and then ask for funding to study them further?

10. Why hasn't any other government on Earth revealed a crashed ship so as to embarrass the US (and possibly gain funding from the United Nations for further study)?

11. How can the US government be so inept at keeping secret evidence of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and at Gitmo in Cuba, but somehow can manage to keep evidence of alien visitation secret for decades? Note that no alien bacteria, piece of flesh, bone, textile fiber, or piece of metal from an alien ship has ever been leaked to the media.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (09/25/05 12:47 PM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4714892 -

1. Why did the lawyer for the Pascagoula abductees hire a student polygraph examiner from 100 miles away rather than accept a free polygraph examination from Charles Wimberly of the Mobile, AL police department?

I don't know.  I would have to find the lawyer and ask him.
BTW: U got proof of this, source?

2. Why did a woman floating out of a 12th story window into a hovering UFO next to the heavily-trafficked Brooklyn Bridge and FDR Drive not illicit a flood of phone calls to the local police department?

Probably the same reasons that a flood of people didn't go screaming when me and my friends saw the ship close-up.

3. You have yet to provide a link to a journal of professional astronomers containing an article about UFOs. Do you have any evidence that professional astronomers who spend their careers looking into the sky see UFOs?

No, but I have no boubt that it exists.  Professionals don't like to discredit their professionalism, thats why they are professionals!  When your talking about something as deeply stigmatised as UFOS, who would put their name to it?

4. Why do people abducted by UFOs never come back with an alien bacteria or fiber that rubbed off on their clothing?

Maybe aliens advance enough to get here, have super advanced anti-bacterial systems?  Besides whos gonna check you for that shit when you dial 911?

Theres many posabilites...

5. Why would beings so advanced come all the way here, then hide?

Who says they're hiding?

Just because they don't announce themselves?

6. If these aliens don't want to be seen, why are they seen all the time?

:rotfl: Who says they don't want to be seen?  I believe they are a covert race but don't care that much if people see them, I mean its not like anybody believes anyway, right? :smirk:

7. If they're advanced enough to exceed the speed of light, how can it be they're so inept as to crash here?

HAVE I ONCE EVER STATED THAT THEY HAVE CRASHED HERE.  I DON'T BELIEVE EVERY CONSPIRICY THEORY ONLINE JUST BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN ET!

8. What does the government gain by keeping these things secret?

Maintain the system = maintain power & money = HAPPY GOVERNMENT

Just llok at the histeria war of the worlds caused, if you think people arn't frightened and won't panic.


9. Wouldn't the government gain more by revealing these things and then ask for funding to study them further?

:whatever:

I think they'd be more interested in using the technology for black weapons projects or military gain.

10. Why hasn't any other government on Earth revealed a crashed ship so as to embarrass the US (and possibly gain funding from the United Nations for further study)?

:whatever:

11. How can the US government be so inept at keeping secret evidence of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and at Gitmo in Cuba, but somehow can manage to keep evidence of alien visitation secret for decades? Note that no alien bacteria, piece of flesh, bone, textile fiber, or piece of metal from an alien ship has ever been leaked to the media.

The evidence is there but it exists in a sea of stigma and hoaxes.

Hence me TELLING YOU, that you will only believe when you see one yourself.

That was my point remeber, I asked you all to go skywatching, funnily enough all the 'critical thinkers' didn't wanna leave there houses :nonono:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Diploid]
    #4715591 -

ok, im sorry... im not judge and jury here but i feel like i need to say something... Its just that poor diploid is doing alot of work and research and supporting his arguments in an amazingly thurough and convincing way, and no ones throwing him a bone.

I dont know if ETs are visiting us. I dont know if Ufo's have aliens in them.

I do know that Diploid has consistently been putting forth rock solid arguments that Daneoboy either totally ignores or responds with some half assed answer.

I mean look at this exchange:

Diploid: why dont astronomers see UFO's?

Daneoboy: they do , all the time!

Diploid: link please?

Daneoboy: Why would any professional astronomer admit to seeing UFO's? its so stigmatized (aka i dont have any link and i made my initial comment based on no evidence at all)

i dont worship critical thinking like some people do. If believing in aliens makes you happy do it. and if you actually saw an alien yourself than hell id believe it to. But dont expect to convince other people with the grade of logic and argument your putting forward.

compared to diploid your coming off as a fanatic.

Lets all just agree to disagree eh?

daneoboy, no ammount of pictuires or supposed eye witness cases will convince diploid to believe what you believe.

Diploid no amount of rational argument will convince daneoboy to belive what you believe.

interesting thread though

peace, dont take it personally

:thumbup: :stoned: :smirk:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4716441 -

"Its just that poor diploid is doing alot of work and research and supporting his arguments in an amazingly thurough and convincing way, and no ones throwing him a bone."

That is because he doesn't need anyone to "throw him a bone". He has the righteousness of truth on his side. That is enough.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4718242 -

Ask a policeman how reliable the average "eye" witness is. I also find it humorous that people who work or used to work for government agencies are somehow more credible then the average Joe.

People are people.


--------------------
--------------------
We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4719448 -

>>>Its just that poor diploid is doing alot of work and research

Yes thats why he's only posted 3 times in this entire thread.  Mostly with assumptions that HE THINKS I THINK!

Did you even look at the first thread and the amount of evidence I presented???

>>>and no ones throwing him a bone.

OK, I'm sorry I should lie about what I know more often, then you guys would all be merry.

>>>and if you actually saw an alien yourself than hell id believe it

I have stated my experiences many times on here.  I have also stated that you have to see them yourself to believe.  Thats why I challenged them to go and look for themselves, do a week of skywatching, 2 hours an evening after 12.

Unfortunately Diploid and Swarmi's 'critical' minds are both already made up.

>>>daneoboy, no ammount of pictuires or supposed eye witness cases will convince diploid to believe what you believe.

I noticed.

>>>Diploid no amount of rational argument will convince daneoboy to belive what you believe.

Why is it more rational?

If I hadn't seen one myself, then I would say the rational answer is to not decide either way. :tongue:

>>>grade of logic and argument

If you know of a better arguement please state it.

As I've said before, my purpose here is to learn more about the psycology of people in relation to the phenomena which I know is happening.

By trying to convince people, I work out all the different perspectives on the scenario.  I am souly interested in every aspect of the phenomena, I have been ever since I saw my first UFO close-up and realised these craft are most likely space ships.


From what you are saying, it appears you have only read this page and not the whole thread :nonono:

Edited by danoEoboy (09/27/05 11:26 AM)

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4719472 -

:rotfl: and you know the truth of the whole universe,
don't you hue? :rotfl:

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Ego Death]
    #4721001 -

I know that I know only a little. I do not make rash assumptions.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Phluck]
    #4726385 -

Think of how often someone gets brutally hit in the nuts. Every now and then, but you could go for months, even years at a time without seeing it happen to anyone. Judging by the way you describe it, you see UFOs more frequently than that. How many times has video of someone getting slammed in the nuts been videotaped? Ever watch America's Funniest Home Videos?

What we need is a video of an alien getting hit in the sac...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Diploid, here are the incidents that you have not researched and can't account for... [Re: Swami]
    #4726393 -

Swami said:
Think of how often someone gets brutally hit in the nuts. Every now and then, but you could go for months, even years at a time without seeing it happen to anyone. Judging by the way you describe it, you see UFOs more frequently than that. How many times has video of someone getting slammed in the nuts been videotaped? Ever watch America's Funniest Home Videos?

What we need is a video of an alien getting hit in the sac...


All 3 of them.


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