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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: mycogirl]
#4702665 - 09/23/05 10:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Absolute non-sense. It would be far cheaper to breed or isolate round-up ready corn if it were already done in nature. Do you have any idea what the R&D budget of Monsanto is? It would certainly be enough to find round up ready corn if it existed in nature.
Of course genetic material is transfered throughout the community of life. But going from that to saying that what Monsanto does is the same thing that happens in nature is a huge stretch. If it were true, nobody would know the name Monsanto, we would know the name of the worlds largest natural botanist.
BTW, I'm not some clueless paranoid hippie. I've actually carried out many types of genetic engineering. I sure would rather not eat any of them though, nor see their advantages used to replace sustainable agricultural practice.
One of the biggest advantages of organic/responsible agriculture has nothing to do with GMO though. It's the fact that organic farming has much less environmental impact than non-organic farming. Everything from run-off (of "harmless" fertilizers, which are anything but harmless, and "harmful" pesticides alike) to the amount of petroleum required to manufacture and transport chemical fertilizers is higher for anything that isn't organic.
It's not just about the health of the food, but the sustainability of the system.
-------------------- "From a certain point of view" -Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi PM me with any cultivation questions. I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL
Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Phluck]
#4703832 - 09/24/05 02:22 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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phluck, i see what you mean, but the GMO industry isn't really being run under the 'hey let's make things better for civilization' philosophy - take monsanto and their 'terminator' technology - they are using genetic engineering and intellectual patents to claim copyright over nature! and, to rub matters worse, changing nature up, adding and subtracting things, and claiming patent on it! really , if genetic engineering was being done on a scientific, community-based level, i don't think i'd be so against it - but what with the industry that is running it today, i think it is horrid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Shroomism]
#4704158 - 09/24/05 05:06 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: because organic food is natural. It shouldn't have to be labelled.. "This is natural"
Instead, the genetically modified food, should be labelled, that it is, in fact.. genetically modified. It's common sense.
to the contrary, many organicly grown foods are geneticly modified, the market is saturated with the shit because of the scam that is organic certification, with the additional revenue that organic products earn, would you think that monsanto, Conagra, Cargil on other huge corporations wouldnt jump in especialy when it simply means they can use the seed stock they already have and simply need to change their fertilizers and pest control methods
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Phluck]
#4704173 - 09/24/05 05:16 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phluck said: A single cup of coffee contains the same amount of carcinogens as you get in an entire year of eating non-organic vegetables.
Coffee is also one of the highest sources of antioxidants available
http://www.positivelycoffee.org/topic_antioxidant_latest.aspx
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: exclusive58]
#4704413 - 09/24/05 08:36 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Either, or. Food is food.
But i picked GM'ed to spite all the Shroomery hippies who would rather eat "natural" stuff.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Krishna]
#4704600 - 09/24/05 10:32 AM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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but the GMO industry isn't really being run under the 'hey let's make things better for civilization' philosophy - take monsanto and their 'terminator' technology - they are using genetic engineering and intellectual patents to claim copyright over nature!
You can't take a single example and claim that it shows how an entire industry works. That's the same as pointing out that some pot growers use violence to protect their crops and claiming that proves the entire marijuana industry is evil.
Just because something can be used negatively, and sometimes is, doesn't mean that it's generally used for evil.
Baseball bats are commonly used as a weapon. Should we ban them? Is the baseball bat industry, and by extension the entire sporting goods industry driven by the desire to inflict greed and evil upon the world? Of course not.
Monsanto has used the technology for some pretty despicable things, and naturally these are the kinds of stories you hear about because they make good headlines. No media outlet will publish a huge expose on how researchers have engineered a kind of rice that is higher in nutrients and survives tough conditions because that's a boring story.
Do you really know that people aren't operating under the "hey let's make things better" philosophy? Are the scientists all evil people cackling in labs and wringing their hands together, filled with glee at the prospect of destroying the environment so that their bosses can get richer?
It seems like a lot of people assume that the scientific community is composed of evil people. It's not, in my experience, scientists tend to be fairly left leaning, and the kind of people who are fascinated by, and love nature. That's why they've devoted their lives to studying it.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Krishna
कृष्ण,LOL
Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 23,285
Loc: oakland
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Phluck]
#4705162 - 09/24/05 12:45 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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well, while the scientific community may currently be looking for ways to feed more people, etc - the framework under which the research is being done (privatly controlled, intellectually patented) renders any positive findings null and void, in my opinion. as to the actual benefit of genetic engineering, it is very debatable - the claims of these companies that 'these crops will grow so much better, yield so much more, feed the poor, hungry masses' haven't panned out so much, in reality. check http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2003/India-GMO-Failure-Shiva31may03.htm for examples of the failure of GMOs in India
from the article,
Quote:
Cost Benefit Analysis of Bt. cotton vs other cotton in one acre in Maharashtra and Andhra Pradesh Bt. Cotton Non-Bt. Hybrids AKA 5 & 7 (Growing in ZARC, Yawatmal) A. Expenditure on Inputs (Seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, irrigation) Rs. 8100/- Rs. 5750/- Zero Expenditure B. Expected Total Yield 4 quintals 10 quintals 5 quintals C. Output Value Rs. 6600 (Rs. 1650/- qtl) Rs. 16500 (Rs. 1650/- qt) Rs. 8250 (Rs. 1650/- qtl) C ? A Loss of Rs. 1500/ acre Profit of Rs. 10750/-acre Profit of Rs. 8250/- acre
Cost Benefit Analysis of Bt. cotton vs other cotton in one acre in Madhya Pradesh Bt. Cotton Non-Bt. varieties A. Expenditure on Inputs (Seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, irrigation, labour) Rs. 6675/- Rs. 7005/- B. Expected Total Yield 4.01 quintals 7.05 quintals C. Output Value Rs. 7218 (Rs. 1800/- quintal) Rs. 13320 (Rs. 1800/- per quintal) C ? A Income of Rs. 543/- acre Profit of Rs. 6315/- acre
Cost Benefit Analysis of Bt. cotton vs other cotton in one acre in Karnataka Bt. Cotton Non-Bt. varieties A. Expenditure on Inputs (Seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, irrigation, labour) Rs. 8925/- Rs. 10250/- B. Expected Total Yield 3.82 quintals 7 quintals C. Output Value Rs. 7640 (Rs. 2000/- quintal) Rs. 14000 (Rs. 2000/- per quintal) C ? A Loss of Rs. 1285/ acre Profit of Rs. 3750/ acre
simply put, the GMOs don't do what they are supposed to at all, and in the mean-time, put a lot of money (and more market-control power) in the hands of a few corporate entities...
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Krishna]
#4705194 - 09/24/05 12:57 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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The notion of GMO's feeding the hungry masses is stupid for 2 reasons
1. We already have a surplus of food, and people are starving. Why do we need to make food more efficiently?
2. Regardless of what some people want to think, people are still animals and any time you increase an animal population's food supply, you increase it's population. Producing more food, and even distributing the surplus we already have will only make more hungry people. It will not end hunger and starvation.
You would think that an entire industry based on such advanced "biology" would understand such a simple ecological principle and stop playing the philanthropic role. Oh, but it sounds so good to the media and the (mentally) starving masses.....
-------------------- "From a certain point of view" -Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi PM me with any cultivation questions. I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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mycogirl
goddamn
Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 1,135
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Krishna]
#4705199 - 09/24/05 12:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have been an opponent most of my life. I do oppose people making mad profits in this industry at the expense of others, however its corporate america that has the problem, CEOs paid millions of dollars a year for running a business. All that profit isn't going to people working on these projects.
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Edited by mycogirl (03/14/06 12:53 AM)
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: mycogirl]
#4705231 - 09/24/05 01:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think if an area of land is not naturally suitable for sustaining a given population, then any attempts at making it so are nothing more than egocentric attempts at playing god that will result in further destruction of the ecosystem.
What genetic engineers need to work on is making the existing populace stronger and smarter so LESS people can inhabit the earth and further our existence for the better.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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Annom
※※※※※※
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6,367
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Phluck]
#4705256 - 09/24/05 01:13 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Genetic engineering sounds kind of scary, especially if you don't have a solid understanding of what it entails. But if you take a cucumber, and splice in the gene from carrots that makes them produce vitamin A, what reason is there to believe that will create some other kind of danger? I mean, maybe it does, but maybe the kind of distortion created from mp3 compression causes a weird vibration frequency that causes brain damage.
I think that a lot of the fear about genetic modifications really comes from paranoia of playing god, the kind of frankenstein paranoia that's been around for centuries.
Yes, I agree. There are so much useless fears that keep the world from getting a better place. The word Nuclear Power, Stem Cell and Genetic Modification tends people to run away screaming. Politics have to do what the general public wants even if they know that the fear is based on a word and there are no better alternatives.
I see Genetic Engineering as a form of intelligent evolution. Good and bad things are always possible, but there is no need to condone everything that is Genetic Modified. I still believe that most scientist want a better world and I think technology is the single thing that has made this world a better place to live. People who are against technology without any knowledge of it are the ones that stop making this world a better1 place to live.
1 better does not mean happier. I don't know how relative happiness is.
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: Annom]
#4705351 - 09/24/05 01:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said: I think technology is the single thing that has made this world a better place to live. People who are against technology without any knowledge of it are the ones that stop making this world a better1 place to live.
What about me?
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: Poll: GMOs or Organic food? [Re: daimyo]
#4705397 - 09/24/05 01:42 PM (18 years, 6 months ago) |
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as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather eat food that hasn't been injected with hormones and chemicals. Let the damn things grow off cow shit for christs' sake!
But as for GM food, I don't care. If a plant is less resistant to drought, grows bigger than normal, or whatever, I don't care as long as there aren't strange new chemicals being biosynthesised. The only thing i'd worry about is plants GM'd to produce pharmacutical drugs cross pollenating with other food plants. The control factor is scary, and we should know by now that we CAN'T control life.
i didn't vote because there was no choice for my opinion, "no preservatives, no artificial flavors, no artificial sweetners, and it's golden!"
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