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Offlineianhard011
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Galerina marginata help
    #4691223 - 09/21/05 07:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

how much Galerina marginata would uhave to eat inorder to be at risk of death would a little less than a cap kil u, and how long until u felt sick? i desperatley need to know i accidentaly took a bite of one .. i believe


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OfflinemotamanM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: ianhard011]
    #4694308 - 09/22/05 10:34 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You should go to the hospital and bring a sample of the mushroom with you.


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Offlineleafing
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: motaman]
    #4696915 - 09/22/05 09:06 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

probably not enough to do any serious damage.. but do everything possible to be safe.. and next time think before you eat


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: ianhard011]
    #4697009 - 09/22/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

The levels of amatoxins in mushrooms are pretty variable, so there isn't any quick number that could be given.

If you've eaten an amatoxin containing mushroom and it's still 4 hours or less since you ate it, you should induce vomiting.

Beyond all that, you should deal with the situation symptomatically. If you become ill, seek medical attention.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflinemotamanM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: ToxicMan]
    #4697041 - 09/22/05 09:25 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eating as little as two ounces of an amatoxin-containing mushroom like Amanita phalloides can lead to liver failure and death (Arora, 1986, 893). Typically, symptoms are delayed for 6-12 hours after the mushrooms have been eaten, after which the victim experiences fairly severe abdominal cramping, vomiting, and diarrhea. These symptoms are sometimes severe enough that the victim seeks medical attention--but not always.

The next stage of amatoxin poisoning is particularly insidious, and its existence probably accounts for many of the fatalities: There is a period of apparent remission, in which the victim feels better. This period can last for two to three days, and the victim may well decide that medical attention is no longer required. During this period of false remission, however, the victim's liver is being destroyed by the amatoxins. By the time liver failure occurs, there are few options remaining aside from a liver transplant, as in the article at the top of this page. Without a transplant, death occurs within a few days.

No antidote exists for the amatoxins. If doctors are able to detect the poisons quickly, within a few hours of injestion, measures such as pumping the stomach or administering charcoal may be effective. There is evidence that high doses of penicillin may help to inhibit the absorption of amatoxins in animals, but human results are still unclear (Chang, 2002). Sadly, however, doctors don't often have these options available to them because the patient is typically admitted into treatment after the false remission period, when it is too late.

Given the lethal nature of amatoxins, and the fact that initial symptoms are abdominal cramping, vomiting, and diarrhea, anyone who experiences these symptoms after eating wild mushrooms should take them very seriously. Far better to seek medical attention that turns out to be unnecessary than to miss your one medical chance to keep amatoxins away from your liver. Those who eat wild mushrooms should also remember the false remission period involved with amatoxins; if you have, for example, self-diagnosed a minor mushroom poisoning, you might easily decide you are "better"--then suddenly be faced with the necessity of a liver transplant, and only a few hours to find a liver! In short, see a doctor immediately when you suspect even the possibility of mushroom poisoning.




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OfflineMagick
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: motaman]
    #11007968 - 09/06/09 06:16 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eating as little as two ounces of an amatoxin-containing mushroom like Amanita phalloides can lead to liver failure and death (Arora, 1986, 893).




Is that two ounces WET or DRY?

Makes a huge difference!


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Magick]
    #11007969 - 09/06/09 06:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wet.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Magick]
    #11007976 - 09/06/09 06:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, think. Apart from this thread being 4 years old, the answer is actually quite obvious.
Amanita phalloides is one of the most poisonous mushrooms on Earth. Of course this is fresh weight. One cap can potentially kill you.


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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: German Kahuna]
    #11009011 - 09/06/09 02:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I read recently that one Death Cap could kill up to 8 people.

The pic in the back of Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World, Stamets shows a pic of like 200 G. autumnalis and consertively estimates there are enough mushrooms there to kill ten people.


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OfflineMagick
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Twiztidsage]
    #11071789 - 09/16/09 07:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well the reason I asked is because surely there have been people who have consumed small amounts of amatoxin-containing mushrooms without knowing right?

I mean people (especially the not-experienced) consume magic mushrooms they've picked in the wild all the time, and surely some must have eaten small amounts of amatoxin-containing lookalikes without dying or even getting sick before, right? I was reading that the average mortality rate for people consuming them is between 25-30% depending on various factors so obviously it's not a definite (albeit quite probable) ticket to death.

Also I'd be willing to bet amanitas contain more amatoxins than galerina species etc (but don't know for sure!), not to mention amanitas are generally bigger, so of course one amanita would kill a person but would say one small galerina do likewise? Or a piece of one? Or a tiny nibble?

I have been wondering about this for a long time now and nobody seems to be able to give me a scientific answer on this! Come on now it's the shroomery someone here should know this kind of thing.

And jeez German Kahuna, sorry :/, I either found it with the search or in the 'similar threads' so it wasn't obvious to me that this thread was old when I did.


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OfflineTwiztidsage
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Magick]
    #11071874 - 09/16/09 07:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If Paul Stamets conservativly estimates that like a few hundred would kill 10 people then 20-40 could kill one.

This of course is an estimate. It also depends how many mushrooms are in the pic on page 194 of Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World. I first estimated 200, now after discussion of opinion with my girly I think 3-4 hundred.

It is from this pic that he estimates that it would conservativly kill 10.

And the people who live through it have severe liver and kidney problems for life.


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Magick]
    #11072626 - 09/16/09 10:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

One of the big problems with trying to give an answer to this question is that the levels of amatoxins in mushrooms is variable, even within the same species. Some specimens can have no amatoxins at all, and some can have more than twice the average.

Another problem is that the size of the mushrooms is also variable. I've seen G. marginata specimens over pretty much the entire size range listed as normal (1 - 4 cm).

Finally, how much is a lethal dose? Your size and health will obviously greatly affect this. Is a lethal dose enough to kill 50% of the people who eat them and don't receive medical attention? 10%? 90%?

So when I say that the average value would be about 20 mushrooms, you need to understand that this number isn't necessarily very valuable.

Happy mushrooming!


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OfflineMagick
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: ToxicMan]
    #11072686 - 09/16/09 10:32 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for that Twiztidsage, ToxicMan :smile:

I found this - http://www.mycologia.org/cgi/content/full/96/4/720 - has some information regarding the amounts of amatoxin found which supports Paul Stamets' statement that it would likely take a few of them to kill a man. I'm not very sure about the data in that paper, but I did manage to find in there that Galerina autumnalis can have around 1.5mg/g dry weight of amatoxins (marginata having ~1.1mg/g)

Since the said toxic dosage of amatoxins are 0.1mg/kg which comes out to about 7mg, I believe that I've concluded it would take about 4.5-7g dried mushrooms, or about 2-7 galerina marginatas to reach a potentially lethal dose. The paper itself reports a value higher than this - around 10 galerina marginata to poison a child at 20kg. However I don't know if it's wise to set the number that high when talking about the actual toxicity because there are so many variables that can effect the number as ToxicMan said, and we don't know whether the LD50 would realistically kill 50% of subjects or if it would kill 10% or 90%.

According to that pic from Paul Stamets' book (in which I estimate about 120 mushrooms to be in the 'ring') he says that there's enough mushrooms there to kill about 10 people, which would set his estimate at 11-12 galerinas to kill a man. ToxicMan you claim 20 mushrooms would prolly do an adult person which more or less goes along with the data in that paper.

Of course as mentioned before less than that is still probably going to cause serious hepatic issues and the like so that doesn't by any means mean that consuming them in any amount, even one of them, is necessarily safe. It just potentially points at an answer regarding their actual toxicity and states that 'perhaps' a person can survive consumption of a galerina with little to no ill-effects. And I'm willing to bet it has happened and probably a little more than we all would like to think so.

Basically I think I've concluded that it would take at least a couple of galerina mushrooms to take down an adult human - basically if someone were to bite into one by accident they'd prolly be fine, if someone were to eat one they might be OK but should still get to a hospital, and if someone eats more than one then they are at a higher risk of death - this chance increasing with the amount of fungal matter eaten.

This sound correct?


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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: Magick]
    #17724679 - 02/01/13 03:07 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Damn, dude's last post ever on here was four days later...


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Galerina marginata help [Re: mycocozm]
    #17724774 - 02/01/13 03:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

He is fine, it would take a lot more than one bite to do anything.


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