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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4692823 -

indeed it was ( a good post by skorpivo). i issue a retraction of all my previous hot gas spewing. Its not for me to say who should stay and who should go. You said it right, he comes from a reality that most of us have a hard time dealing with... maybe i wouldnt go so far as to say "a giant among midgets" ... but thats your call to make

:smirk:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #4692939 -

SkorpivoMusterion said:
I wasn't able to see what exactly took place in Trendal's thread, what was specifically said and such in time, however it did seem obvious that there could've been some restraint excercised on Swami's part for the sake of neutrality, but to what magnitude of neutrality-disturbance was evoked, I don't know as I wasn't there to see it, so I'll digress.


Exactly. I didn't see what happened in this thread either. If you are going to ban someone, it certainly makes sense for your own interests to remove what actually happened so that your opinion will have more weight than what actually happened. Its hard to ban Swami and point to the evidence when you destroy the evidence, and then get pissed off because all of these people want to lash out at you and question the ban. :rolleyes:

I mean, seriously now, can we all say "d'uh!"? :lol: :smirk:

Uh oh, I hope I didn't hurt someone's feelings by pointing out the perceived absense of sense or reason in their point of view... I'd touch and rub them so that they feel better, so I don't get banned, but I think that might be further misconstrued... :shocked: :lol: Can't we all just get along? :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Veritas]
    #4693895 -

So dislike is not a negative? If you dislike like something over something else, that in itself is a prejudice. I thought you just said that you dislike prejudice? Thats the same as saying, not liking something in favor of not liking something. Thats funny.

Yes, we did just talk about it and I said, it was healthy to stand up for something you feel passionately about.

You, replied by disagreeing with that. You said that you realized, you shouldn't expect others to believe as you do and that you shouldn't get upset if people don't believe as you do and that it is you who need to respect and accept that. You said that once you did, you felt good again.

It's your own advise you posted and you said you learned from it. So now, obviously, the mods don't believe as you do and you are wanting them to believe as you do.

I think it's funny how quickly you forgot your own advise here. It's even funnier when I replied to you being supportive of taking a stand for what you feel strongly about and you shot that down and NOW you are doing just that.

Experiencing you tell me that I am wrong about something and that you found a way that is better for you and then, a week later I see you do things my way is just funny.

Hmmmm were you applying a prejudice towards me in that post? So my suggestion sucked when I said it, buts it great when you say it. Okay! I find that funny too.

How come you guys ran in to defend those being flamed by vertigo, but said nothing to those who were fanning vertigos short fuse? Like that post itself wasn't a trolling post. Swami puts up one about the best of UFO evidence being lame knowing full well that enthusiast will reply and then, people can come in and make fun of them. I guess you haven't been here long enough yet to grow tired of that shtick.

Vertigo found the topic interesting and wanted to discuss it and his not knowing the ropes here he set himself up and then realized he was being insulted classic S&P "how to get away with it" style. What were his choices?

1) leave the thread and not be able to participate in a discussion here he found interesting. Well that option sucks because, this is a discussion forum.

2) he could've gone to a mod asking WTF is wrong with some people here. Had a mod taken action, he would've been labeled a whiner who can't handle his emotions.

3) He could've ignored the passive insults and just kept discussing with those who shared his interest. That can be difficult to do when someone keeps interrupting calling you a liar and implying you are stupid.

4) he could've used humor to diffuse the situation like many of us do, but then, he would've been going off topic.

5) He just could've kindly asked for some respect for his beliefs and hoped for the best.

6) He did try to be civil at first. He said he saw something written on a TV guide. Because he couldn't prove it and he said he couldn't, he was a called a Liar.

WTF is right.

I get tired of seeing people provoked and hazed who don't know the frat mentality around here and then the one who gets provoked and blindsided gets the ax for being defensive. It's sick, and keeps the dis-ease hiding beneath the surface of this forum thriving.

For a time, I bought into this idea that says, "people grow when they are challenged and get their buttons pushed" Well, I've been observing and playing that game for a year and the growth I have seen come from it is that either people decide, they are to grown up for this place and leave OR they grow to become just as diseased so they fit in.

Cut the skin and the scar makes a stronger thicker seal. Is S&P about toughening up ones skin? I thought OTD was better designed for that. Is that the ideal, to come here and get cut the fuck up to become a walking scar with hardened skin who can in turn more easily cut at others. Is that the kind of growth we work towards here or even want too?

It reminds me of that post crunchy put up about what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. He questioned if it was just being used as a coping phrase for those in denial that they are being whipped by life. Thats how I see this idea that people being challenged in S&P makes them stronger. It doesn't. It just weakens them as it breaks them down until they become malleable enough to fit in and not question the status quo.

It's also funny that people who say others just want the comfort of nutty like beliefs are the ones doing the challenging and hazing and breaking in to get people to believe just like they do so they can feel comfortable in their limitation.

The majority of the planet lives in limitation and consensus reality. One would think a spirituality forum at a psychedelic board would be far removed from that and yet, a handful here want to keep the conversation in alignment with consensus reality. And they call the others scared of the unknown and beyond. It's a joke.

If the administrators want to stop having to deal with this problem, all they have to do is create a philosophy forum for philosophical debate and leave spirituality and religion for discussion only.

Every time a problem comes up where spiritual or religious beliefs are being attacked or disrespected, the justifiable excuse is that this is also a philosophical debate forum. Or some say, they come here just to practice their debating skills and they do it in the middle of a thread where people are working on sharing experiences and esoteric understandings with others. Thats BS that someone gets to walk in on such a thread and practice their debate skills, when they have no sincere interest in exploring the topic with the others. The thread just gets trashed.

Hell forbid people mention splitting this forum lest someone say , yes, the admins should create the Kumbayah forum as they want to make fun of others who just want to have a discussion with others who share the same esoteric interests.

I just got this cool book in the mail called the Lemurian Scrolls. I'd love to start a post on it as I get into it and share some stuff from it. I won't simply because, I can't prove Lemuria existed. Even if I post it as myth and metaphor, what insight it has to offer will come under attack because I can't prove Lemuria existed. The attacks will come that I am gullible, the author is a fraud and scam artist. WTF is right vertigo. Like people don't spend money on fiction for entertainment or to pour themselves in topics of interest like romance novels.

And watch someone reply and say, if you are tired of it, why don't you leave. At the same time I get tired of that, I also love being a part of whats awesome about this forum and what works when it does.

The only reason I am writing all of this is because, I know I am the voice for dozens who are to shy to speak or feel it is useless. This forum is mostly introverts and I am one of the rare extroverts here who has no problem with using my voice publicly.

Like I discussed with you in the thread you referred to Veritas, the slaves would not have been freed and women never given the right to vote if people did not speak out and stand up for those without a voice.

How many of you came out to speak up for swami, who has no problem speaking up for himself, yet you don't speak out for those who don't know how to or who do but can't find words for their frustrations here beyond flaming people.

Anyway, I know I am a guest here and its a privilege to have made the acquaintance of so many I have come to respect and admire.

:heart: :peace:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4693903 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
Whats funny is how swami speaks out against Jones town and his feeding of poisoned kool-aid to his followers. Now camp swami is taking poison around here. I have never seen Veritas make mean faces or be so negative and judgmental before. How does the poison of negativity taste Veritas? Feel it pulsing through your veins now? What is it doing for all of the being in joy and pleasure you preach about?


Whoa, Jesus Christ, apparently you are extremely bitter concerning Veritas. :shocked: You must feel challenged by her.  :thumbdown:

"A Swami ban is good for drama" only holds true when there are those around here that take it as an excuse to lash out at everyone that they have taken issue with. I'd say that it is a woman thing, but then again, I have never seen Veritas act that way. :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4693929 -

i miss him already.
banning is too barbaric


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4693931 -

As for those people who don't see enough Moderator action, or inconsistent Moderation, please press the Notify Mod button at the bottom of each post whenever you want someone to look at a touchy situation. Sometimes you've gotta' help Mods do their jobs. Or, help them be more even handed.

Use the feature wisely, you can greatly influence how this forum is Moderated, by pointing your Mods in the right direction.

On another note,

These Swami discussions are important to this forum, and for this community.

I think subjectivity should be removed from this forum's rules. Send people to The Pub, if they want a guaranteed positive experience discussing S&P. Let The Pub handle all The Shroomery's subjectivity. This forum needs to be more open, to get to the meat of things.

Take a look at PA&L, where people thrive on each other's differences (with the occasional flame/ban)... with minimal drama. Tough topics can be discussed here, at The Shroomery with relative ease, if the forum rules allow it to happen.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Rose]
    #4693950 -

Cervantes said:
I think subjectivity should be removed from this forum's rules. Send people to The Pub, if they want a guaranteed positive experience discussing S&P. Let The Pub handle all The Shroomery's subjectivity. This forum needs to be more open, to get to the meat of things.


I think this would be a great idea, just like your reminder to use the notify moderator function. :wink: Difference in opinions here have opened up a lot of people to a lot of new insight and understanding. Half the reason that a lot of shit gets stirred when Swami gets banned, I think, is because there are a lot of people that frequent this forum that have receieved great benefit from his posts, whether it is learning to not emotionally react to the point that your perceptions become blurred and distorted, or simply that one should more seriously think their ideas out or be more open to discussion of those ideas, to better formulate and communicate them.

I think a lot of people here would say something to this effect. :thumbup: I think it is bizarre to think that some people here hold for themselves some lofty concept of spirituality and do not wish for others to take positions agansit their concept, as I personally feel that spirituality is one's highest sense of what life is and the manner in which one lives it - its crazy to think that life isn't going to challenge your concepts and perceptions of itself. :grin:

So, yes, let's remove all of the fluffy subjectivity from the rules, and focus more on enforcing effective rules that actually interfere with the discussions and ideas in this forum, like blatant flaming, personal attacks, etc. etc. etc. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4693955 -

Well said.

I have tried explaining (publicly and privately) until I am blue in the face, how Swami can help this community, but people either love him or hate him... and I can't blame either side, although I have my preference.

The rules don't help matters. It is very hard to allow subjective Moderation, in a forum where people are intended to discuss their differing opinions, openly. What insults one, may enlighten another.

It is obvious Swami's pet project is the S&P Mods. Ballsy... but he risks getting his hand caught in the cookie jar.

I think you really got at the point of this issue.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4693965 -

Does that get your rocks off FW.:lol: I've called guys on that stuff too. Just because veritas is a female member does that mean I can't call her on stuff because I am female? Thats dumb. Veritas and I both know where each other stands with competitive crap let alone female competitive crap. We think it's crap. :grin:

I think she rocks and I'm glad she's here. I even turned down an offer of esteem here and recommended her in my place. She's a strong, intelligent, balanced heartful person. It bumbed me out when I saw her get caught up into one of these swami dramas and get sucked in and away from her center.

I wanted to remind her of the center she said she found that worked for her based on her personal spiritual goals. I think they did work for her if she made a point to say nay to my suggestion to being okay with speaking up towards influencing beleifs for positive change in favor of letting differences be for her own sense of peace and good well being.

If she wants to take a stand now and be an influence for change then, I support that to. I encourage it.

Yet, she is right. It will infringe upon her place of peace and general well being. Some times we sacrifice it for a greater good and sometimes, we maintain just ourselves for our own good. Either way, it's all good in the end.

If you want to go bed with thoughts of her and I in a mud wrestling pit, your imagination is yours. Knock your socks off. I'll be balancing my check book.

For the record, If you want to know who acts as an inspirational challenge to me here, it's gomp. He's made of light. Everything passes right through him. I aspire to dissolve any hard places I yet have within to be more like him. :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4693974 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
If you want to go bed with thoughts of her and I in a mud wrestling pit, your imagination is yours. Knock your socks off. I'll be balancing my check book.


Well, the fantasy went something like that, but at the same time, I think it also involved me and Icelander being a bit more than passive specatators... :wink:  :thumbup:

What makes you think that her participation in discussion over the banning of Swami is evidence of her losing her center?

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? *DELETED* [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4693987 -

Post deleted by dorkus

Reason for deletion: .

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: dorkus]
    #4693991 -

dr_mandelbrot said:
At least poison only killed your carefully crafted image. The real you will survive and we see it clearly now.

Experiencing you tell me that I am wrong about something and that you found a way that is better for you and then, a week later I see you do things my way is just funny....
Hmmmm were you applying a prejudice towards me in that post? So my suggestion sucked when I said it, buts it great when you say it. Okay! I find that funny too.



See, that is what I was talking about. Competition or not, something seems to be going on there... :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4694372 -

Yeah... drama.

If Swami is enlightening 10 percent of the time.. he pisses people off the other 90. Criticism and pointing out faults only goes constructively so far. That said I love the dude, but I'm not going to throw myself in front of him to block the metaphorical bullet he has carefully crafted for himself in the past 6 years.


--------------------

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Ravus]
    #4694525 -

Ravus said:
The mods here are just arrogant kids on a power trip for the most part (Ripple and Chinacat exluded; Chinacat's never gone on a power trip, due to his intense LSD experiences I might bet, and Ripple's not a kid :wink:). I wouldn't expect any better from them.

But in the end, it's just a website. I wouldn't take it too seriously, as they're allowed to do whatever they want to, no matter how bullying or illogical it may be.


:goodmorning:

:popcorn:

:bongload:


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!

Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.


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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4694599 -

gettinjiggywithit said:
You, replied by disagreeing with that. You said that you realized, you shouldn't expect others to believe as you do and that you shouldn't get upset if people don't believe as you do and that it is you who need to respect and accept that. You said that once you did, you felt good again.

...

Like I discussed with you in the thread you referred to Veritas, the slaves would not have been freed and women never given the right to vote if people did not speak out and stand up for those without a voice.


Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said:

You can not be attached to a beleif and still stand up for ideals. If you ideal is joyful living and love contributes to that ideal then what do you have to be wronged for in standing up for love being something special to you?

Where would we be if people didn't stand up against slavery? Where would you and I be if women didn't stand up for their beleif that they have a right to vote and equal pay? Standing up for an ideal need not have a thing to do with being defencive or feeling you are on the attack or offended.


Quote:
Veritas said:"As soon as I loosened my hold on the belief that there was something uniquely correct about seeing Love as important, I was no longer defensive."

There is nothing wrong with my thinking there is something special about Love to me, the problem was my thinking others needed to agree with me. That, in my mind, is what's wrong with "-isms."

I have had incredible experiences with the power that I call Love, and still believe that others could benefit from having the same or similar experiences, but I do not NEED them to acknowledge the validity of my beliefs.


OK, just wanted to clarify the discussion we were both talking about, dear! :grin:

My response to your original post on my "ism" thread was directed to you saying that I was "standing up" for love, not you saying that slavery and the right to vote were important things to have stood up for.

Of course I believe that unjust legislation which enslaves or excludes certain members of society should be challenged!

I also believe that rules which are not applied equally to all members of a community (such as the Shroomery) should be challenged.

Holding on loosely to my beliefs as being right for everyone, or even absolutely and permanently right for ME, was the discussion on my "ism" thread.

The rules here are not about my beliefs, or even the mods' beliefs, but about managing a large community.  I do not expect the mods' to believe as I do, but I do expect them to fairly apply the rules.  Of course their decisions will be subjective...all human decisions are!  Does that mean we cannot question their actions?

For the record, I did not feel negatively affected by standing up and objecting to a decision I thought was unjust.  I do not think I was attempting to force my beliefs on anyone.

When Vertigo behaved badly on Swami's thread (whether it was a "baiting" or "joking" thread is irrelevant, BTW)  I objected and posted a quote from the forum rules.  He responded angrily and continued to personally attack and insult people.  I reported his posts, watched two mods make unrelated posts on the thread alongside his diatribes, and saw nothing happen.  Eventually he did calm down, but only after three other posters backed me up and told him he was out of line.

Is he allowed to blow up and flame others when his assertions are questioned?  Is that the new rule for all of us?  Gonna be a hot time in the ol' Shroomery tonight!!

I think we will have to agree to disagree about that particular situation, Jiggy.  :wink:

As to the mud wrestling...that will have to stay in fantasyland, FWG!

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4694893 -

I think, swami is a fair, but, and tricky discussion-partner.
Even if I didn't have read his direct answers in the Trendal-thread, where it was not wished to say book-titles, he must have named many book-titles repeatedly.
It was like if you say no to a child, he does it with more effort...

What did he want to tell us with this ? :emocry:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #4694948 -

I think what Swami did was immature and plain mean, and it did warrant a 24 hour ban.

On the other hand, from lurking and reading threads, I have seen skeptics like Diploid and Swami get verbally abused all the time. While I believe Swami deserved his ban, it would be nice to see a little consistency in the rules around here.

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4695127 -

I'm banned. Thanks for playing.

Edited by Shroomism (09/22/05 01:10 PM)

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Puppet1]
    #4695162 -

Why are you yelling?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Unjust Mods? or digital martyr? [Re: Puppet1]
    #4695239 -

:bye:


--------------------

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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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