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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Fuck WalMart
    #4689666 - 09/21/05 12:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Damn those greedy, soulless giant corporations anyway!

From http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/12696207.htm

Let Wal-Mart take over emergency management

By John Tierney

NEW YORK TIMES

SLIDELL, La. - I don't think Washington needs any more czars. But if President Bush feels compelled to put someone in charge of rebuilding the Gulf Coast, let me suggest a name: Lee Scott.

Scott is the chief executive of Wal-Mart, one of the few institutions to improve its image here after Katrina sent a 15-foot wave across the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain. If you mention the Red Cross or FEMA to people in Slidell, you hear rants about help that didn't arrive and phone lines that are always busy. If you mention state or national politicians, you hear obscenities.

But if you visit the Wal-Mart and the Sam's Club stores here, you hear shoppers who have been without power for weeks marveling that there are still generators in stock (and priced at $304.04). You hear about the trucks that rolled in right after the hurricane and the stuff the stores gave away: chain saws and boots for rescue workers, sheets and clothes for shelters, water and ice for the public.

"This was the only place we could find water those first days," said Rashan Smith, who was shopping with her three children at Wal-Mart on Saturday. "I still haven't managed to get through to FEMA. It's hard to say, but you get more justice at Wal-Mart."

That's the same assessment you hear from public officials in Louisiana, and there's even been talk of letting Wal-Mart take over FEMA's job. The company already has its own emergency operations center, where dozens of people began preparing for the hurricane the week before it hit by moving supplies and trucks into position.

I realize that Scott would not be a popular choice with Democrats. They concede that Wal-Mart and other private companies were far better prepared for Katrina than FEMA was, but they say FEMA would work fine if it were under the control of a virtuous, compassionate public servant - someone, as Bill Clinton suggested, like himself.

Clinton looks back on the 1990s as FEMA's Age of Pericles. "I think we did a good job of disaster management," he said on ABC's "This Week." While criticizing the Bush administration for leaving poor people stranded in New Orleans, he said that he and his FEMA director, James Lee Witt, had been especially sensitive to the needs of poor people because of their own backgrounds.

But if they cared so much, why didn't New Orleans ever work out a feasible way to evacuate poor people? FEMA had a golden opportunity to plan it during the 1990s. The threat of nuclear war had receded and terrorism wasn't yet a priority, so the agency's biggest concerns should have been an earthquake in California and a flood in New Orleans.

But it was too busy dealing with the record number of other "disasters" that Clinton declared - an average of one a week, which meant FEMA was mailing out checks for every flash flood within range of a major media market. Upstate New Yorkers suddenly became incapable of coping with the cost of snow removal.

In 1997, Congress gave FEMA $500,000 and ordered it to develop a comprehensive plan to evacuate New Orleans. The agency passed on the money to Louisiana, which used it instead to study building a new bridge. As Rita Beamish of The Associated Press reported on Sunday, FEMA didn't bother making sure a plan was drawn up - an aide to Witt said its job had just been to pass on the money.

How often do you suppose someone at Wal-Mart headquarters dispenses $500,000 and doesn't bother keeping track of it? It's legendary for tracking every transaction and pinching every penny.

When Scott, the chief executive officer, travels with the chief financial officer, they cut costs by sharing a hotel room.

That's the kind of leader we need to oversee the tens of billions that Washington will be spending on the Gulf Coast. Scott could cut costs while still leaving the area as well prepared for the next disaster as Wal-Mart was for Katrina.

David Vitter, the Republican senator from Louisiana, was so impressed with the rapid response of Wal-Mart and other companies that he promised to introduce a bill to abolish FEMA and contract its job out to the private sector. I'm afraid the Wal-Mart Emergency Management Agency will be a tough sell on Capitol Hill. But I'd vote for WEMA.






Phred


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4689673 - 09/21/05 12:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think HEMA, BEMA and KBREMA are ahead of WEMA on
the docket for the proposal hearings.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4690018 - 09/21/05 01:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So, WAL-MART coughed up a few pennies for this spectacular public relations stunt.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4690411 - 09/21/05 03:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

carbonhoots said:
So, WAL-MART coughed up a few pennies for this spectacular public relations stunt.




Not really, the point of the article was that private buisness can better deal with disasters opposed to government programs whos sole purpose is to deal with disasters.

Of course, it doesn't hurt that Wal-Mart did help the people of New Orleans, but because they are a corporation, it doesn't matter what they actually accomplished if it wasn't for altruistic reasons. Because as we know from liberal thought, its not what you do, but how you feel while doing it that is of REAL importance.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineProsgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: carbonhoots]
    #4690515 - 09/21/05 04:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Something has always baffled me about leftists. Why is it that those who like to forcibly take money from other people to pay for their favorite charities are somehow considered more noble than private business people who dispense their own companies' funds to charity?


--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4691038 - 09/21/05 06:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This news article was pretty much legitimized by the shittiness of LA and NO officials. They fucked up big time.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4691214 - 09/21/05 07:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There is no real accountability in government. It is all about fronts and fall-men, money funneling/laundering, and the maintaining the illusion of control.

Businesses and Corporations are held to higher standards by shareholders and owners. Now before you bring up Halliburton or the Enron scandal, do some digging on Mayor Daley and Chicago politics. The entire city of chicago is an organized crime syndicate and no one cares! The reason you see so many corporate scandals is because of the greater accountability and transparency. The same thing is going on in cities across the country but no one knows/cares.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,200
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Catalysis]
    #4691410 - 09/21/05 07:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So, if you were like the majority of katrina victims: lived in poverty, lost your house, belongings, and anything else of value that you owned, and were looking for loved ones......

I bet the rollback smiley on top of the $300 generator was quite a relief.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4691419 - 09/21/05 07:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If I lived in povery, a $300 generator would not be the first thing on my mind.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Catalysis]
    #4692038 - 09/21/05 09:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
If I lived in povery, a $300 generator would not be the first thing on my mind.




Yeah, screw a generator....I want me a big screen TV.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4693285 - 09/22/05 01:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"David Vitter, the Republican senator from Louisiana, was so impressed with the rapid response of Wal-Mart and other companies that he promised to introduce a bill to abolish FEMA and contract its job out to the private sector. I'm afraid the Wal-Mart Emergency Management Agency will be a tough sell on Capitol Hill. But I'd vote for WEMA."

I was thinking the same thing the other day. The private sector would be better at it. May God Bless Walmart.


--------------------
Tastes just like chicken


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4693404 - 09/22/05 01:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
So, if you were like the majority of katrina victims: lived in poverty, lost your house, belongings, and anything else of value that you owned, and were looking for loved ones......

I bet the rollback smiley on top of the $300 generator was quite a relief.



And I'm sure the fact that wallmart had water during the entire disaster didn't help these people at all. Face the facts. Private enterprise kept the lifesaving water flowing while government fucked it all up. Good job Wallmart.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,200
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: z@z.com]
    #4694158 - 09/22/05 09:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I do not deny Walmart (as a private enterprise) had a better response to the disaster than FEMA.

I was merely pointing out that walmart MAY have had underlying motives for providing relief, and PERHAPS the corporation didn't respond with purely humanistic motives.

If I were starving and needed water would the motive make a difference to me? definetly not. In light of the partisan "big evil corporation" debate, it does.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4694271 - 09/22/05 10:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Standard anti-business "heads I win, tails you lose" response.

If Wal-Mart had not given away water and ice and workboots and chainsaws for free, they would have been accused of being "greedy" or "heartless". If they do give stuff away they are sneered at for cynically exploiting a natural disaster to win public relations points.

This is the standard Leftie way of looking at things -- what matters to the Left is not actions, but the perceived motive behind the actions.




Phred


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4694515 - 09/22/05 11:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I am on agreement with Phred....Why would any leftist be upset that some company was giving something to someone in need? I would not be upset if the United Nations gave Sudan supplies....oh wait a minute they don't....they just put their "peace keepers" in their to observe genocide.....You see liberalism ( the belief that all ways of thought hold equal weight) means nothing, because it stands up for nothing......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4694553 - 09/22/05 11:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Walmart is anything but an example of free market capitalism. Trying to defend Walmart is an example of partisan hackery. I don't espouse the idea that all corporations are bad but Walmart is certainly an example of a corporation that sucks of the teat of society.


Edit: If you want to see an example of a relatively "good" corporation search for my post on Costco.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Prosgeopax]
    #4694590 - 09/22/05 12:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Why is it that those who like to forcibly take money from other people to pay for their favorite charities are somehow considered more noble than private business people who dispense their own companies' funds to charity?

I presume by "forcibly" you mean the government? Even tho taxation is perfectly legal and any political party is perfectly free to stand on a "no-taxation" ticket?

I think it's more that people have learned to question the motives of private business.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,200
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4694709 - 09/22/05 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:

If Wal-Mart had not given away water and ice and workboots and chainsaws for free, they would have been accused of being "greedy" or "heartless". If they do give stuff away they are sneered at for cynically exploiting a natural disaster to win public relations points.




Pretty much why this is a debateable point. Unfortunately, just because someone supports any particular side, it doesn't make them right.

Quote:

Phred said:
This is the standard Leftie way of looking at things -- what matters to the Left is not actions, but the perceived motive behind the actions.






There are many situations where motive is quite important. Since conservatives often claim moral superiority (religion, abortion, family values etc.) the motive in this case IS important.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4694722 - 09/22/05 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
This is the standard Leftie way of looking at things -- what matters to the Left is not actions, but the perceived motive behind the actions.




Hate the strong...love the weak...


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OfflinePuppet1
Stranger
Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 62
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Catalysis]
    #4695051 - 09/22/05 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
If I lived in povery, a $300 generator would not be the first thing on my mind.




not to mention the $300 worth of gas needed to run it.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4695262 - 09/22/05 03:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

badchad writes:

Quote:

There are many situations where motive is quite important.




Name one.

It doesn't matter why one does good deeds. What matters is they get done. No rational person would argue that a passerby in a position to stop a rape from occurring (say a healthy young male carrying a firearm) should be criticized for driving off the rapist because his motive for doing so was he hoped to arrange a dinner date with her, for example. What difference does it make to either the woman, the rapist, or society if his motive was in essence nothing more than an extremely effective pickup ploy rather than an exhibition of Christian brotherly love?




Phred


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4695348 - 09/22/05 03:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
badchad writes:

Quote:

There are many situations where motive is quite important.




Name one.




A police investigation :wink:


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: daimyo]
    #4695355 - 09/22/05 03:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Or Hansel and Gretel being fed candy, just so the witch can eat them.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,200
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4695364 - 09/22/05 03:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Easy.

I shoot someone in the head and kill them. Now doesn't it make a difference if:

A. Said person is attacking me. OR
B. I feel like killing someone for the heck of it.

One could conceivably think of many scenarios where the motivation/intent of performing an act changes the situation from "right" to "wrong".


Now take the Walmart scenario. Regardless of political stance and/or affiliation the situation is viewed differently depending upon whether you see walmart as:

A. An evil corporate giant exploiting people in crisis OR
B. A heartwarming institution reaching out to other's.

I obviously have little effect in changing most people's opinion. It really was not my intent to do so (as that would be futile). All I meant to point out was that motivation does in fact play a role.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4695369 - 09/22/05 03:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't categorize giving things away as exploiting people


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4695418 - 09/22/05 03:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

badchad writes:

Quote:

Easy.

I shoot someone in the head and kill them. Now doesn't it make a difference if:

A. Said person is attacking me. OR
B. I feel like killing someone for the heck of it.




Oh please. What changes the legal (and moral) status of your act is not your motivation, but the other person's actions. In case A, the guy is attacking you. In case B, he isn't.

Quote:

One could conceivably think of many scenarios where the motivation/intent of performing an act changes the situation from "right" to "wrong".




Then you should have no difficulty coming up with an actual example of such a scenario. Your first attempt doesn't qualify.

Quote:

All I meant to point out was that motivation does in fact play a role.




And all I pointed out was the role motive plays is irrelevant to the rightness or the wrongness of the action under discussion.




Phred


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,200
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4695491 - 09/22/05 04:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, something would have to make you pull the trigger. I would define the driving force to do so as a motivation. Yes, the other persons actions dictate what I do, however it is still an internal motivation.

If another person decides to become a priest to either:
A. molest young boys OR to:
B. spread brotherly christian love.

Does the motivation matter?

In my opinion (regardless of what the true reason is/was) Walmarts actions are either justifiable or immoral based upon the corporations motivations (whatever they may be).

In my personal opinion there is a difference between a corporation saying:

A. "I genuinely want to help people" OR
B. "no other stores have products right now, we could make a killing selling stuff AND improve our image to increase sales".

In my humble opinion, option B is not the moral reason to send aid to katrina victims.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: badchad]
    #4695683 - 09/22/05 04:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

badchad writes:

Quote:

LOL, something would have to make you pull the trigger. I would define the driving force to do so as a motivation. Yes, the other persons actions dictate what I do, however it is still an internal motivation.




I can't explain it any more clearly than I have already. The rightness or wrongness of your killing someone attacking you has nothing to do with anything other than his actions. If he's attacking you, your shooting him is right. If he's sitting in a chair minding his own business, shooting him is wrong.

Quote:

If another person decides to become a priest to either:
A. molest young boys OR to:
B. spread brotherly christian love.

Does the motivation matter?




Oh brother. This is an even MORE ludicrous attempt. Molesting little boys is an ACTION. If someone molests little boys, that someone is performing a bad action, regardless of whether he molests them because he enjoys it, because he believes it will save their souls, or because he believes they are incarnations of demons and deserve to be punished.

Do you honestly not grasp the concept under discussion here?

Quote:

In my personal opinion there is a difference between a corporation saying:

A. "I genuinely want to help people" OR
B. "no other stores have products right now, we could make a killing selling stuff AND improve our image to increase sales".

In my humble opinion, option B is not the moral reason to send aid to katrina victims.




So then if the only reason they help the victims is to gain some benefit for themselves, you are saying the victims should not be helped? It must be totally a one-way transaction or it mustn't be carried out?

I rest my case.




Phred


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OfflineVex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4695719 - 09/22/05 05:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wait a second...you agree with this article so now you think it was femas fault for not evacuating everyone? i thought that was ray nagins fault! Ah but now it's clintons fault they didn't have a plan so now it qualifys as a big government failure under democratic leadership, right?

the right never ceases to amaze me with their petty finger pointing and delusional reasoning. Am i suprised that people from the right are trying to blame the katrina situation on clinton who was in office like 6 years ago? no..i guess it was just a matter of time for the right to spin everything around and put it on clinton.

Such hypocrisy....when it's on bush..it's a local and state failure and bush and fema had nothing to do with it. But if the blame can be traced to clinton then it's a massive federal failure on femas part because they were supposed to figure out a way to evacuate people.  :rolleyes: shees make up your minds already.


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OfflineDeepDish
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4695833 - 09/22/05 05:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Motivations are usually based around previous action, that is the whole point of a "motive". Of course it matters why people do good deeds, especially if they are doing them to hide something about themselves. If a serial killer perfoms community service events in order to try and hide fact that he kills little children in his basement, would you not agree that his motive for performing the good deeds is suspect.

I guess there are two ways to look at the situation. The first would be to seperate the actions and treat them as two independant events. In one he is doing something good, in the other something bad. Motivation is simply a characteristic that links the two actions, and it certainly is possible for someone to have a bad motive for performing a percieved good deed.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Vex]
    #4696140 - 09/22/05 06:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wait a second...you agree with this article so now you think it was femas fault for not evacuating everyone?




Where on earth do you get that from? I posted that article to show the difference between the corporate world (competent) and the government world (incompetent). This doesn't mean I think Nagin and Blanco weren't at fault to a greater degree than FEMA -- clearly they were.

Quote:

Am i suprised that people from the right are trying to blame the katrina situation on clinton who was in office like 6 years ago? no..i guess it was just a matter of time for the right to spin everything around and put it on clinton.




LOL! Oh the irony. I guess it escaped your attention that it was the Dems who started immediately bashing Bush for not doing more. It wasn't till a few days later that not-Dems started linking to the ignored New Orleans evacuation plans, the unused New Orleans and Louisianna buses, the diversion of funds from flood protection projects into unknown Democratic pockets, the lackadaisical "actions" of the Clinton administration, etc. If the Angry Left had shown even a modicum of civility and common sense rather than gleefully seizing on a natural tragedy as just another occasion to "get Bush", there would have been a whole hell of a lot less finger-pointing.

When Clinton makes (in defiance of all tradition for the comportment of ex-Presidents) widley-publicized claims that...

Quote:

"I think we did a good job of disaster management," he said on ABC's "This Week." While criticizing the Bush administration for leaving poor people stranded in New Orleans, he said that he and his FEMA director, James Lee Witt, had been especially sensitive to the needs of poor people because of their own backgrounds.




... he leaves himself open for rebuttal. It was Clinton who opened the door.




Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: DeepDish]
    #4696159 - 09/22/05 06:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

DeepDish writes:

Quote:

If a serial killer perfoms community service events in order to try and hide fact that he kills little children in his basement, would you not agree that his motive for performing the good deeds is suspect.




So it would be better if he weren't to do those good deeds?

Quote:

Motivation is simply a characteristic that links the two actions, and it certainly is possible for someone to have a bad motive for performing a percieved good deed.




Of course it is possible. That doesn't change the fact that a good deed which otherwise would not be done has been done. I ask again -- is it better to not do the good deed at all?




Phred


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4696740 - 09/22/05 08:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Electricity is not, to my knowledge, a right. Can't pay your bill????? Live in the dark. And freeze. And starve. Or beg. What?? What's demeaning??? Well, the acknowledgement of an inability to care for oneself should come with some sense of shame. After all, you have really come up short in this society if you can't even feed, clothe and house yourself. That is almost impossible to achieve. Unless you're one of the retards who had a baby at 16 and/or married at 17 and/or droppped out of high school. You can make your own way here. Don't waste your life envying Bill Gates. Envy the guy who owns the mechanic shop down the street or the successful contractor , or the diner owner.
Nobody owes your slacker ass anything. You're young, smart and full of potential. Do it yourself. Nobody's gonna do it for you


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InvisibleAlex213
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Registered: 08/22/05
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Phred]
    #4699934 - 09/23/05 12:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So it would be better if he weren't to do those good deeds?


If it means we catch him sooner then yes. Didn't Gacy's "good deeds" help keep him from suspicion?

That doesn't change the fact that a good deed which otherwise would not be done has been done. I ask again -- is it better to not do the good deed at all?


If you are doing your "good deeds" to assist you in getting away with murder then no.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Fuck WalMart [Re: Alex213]
    #4702576 - 09/23/05 11:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
I presume by "forcibly" you mean the government? Even tho taxation is perfectly legal and any political party is perfectly free to stand on a "no-taxation" ticket?



The legality of an action is no measure of it's being moral, just or efficient. Your questions have no bearing on my original query.

Quote:

I think it's more that people have learned to question the motives of private business.



*** Sigh *** that is assumed in my question and adds nothing. The point is, why don't the same people question the motives of those in government? Why is it that those who like to forcibly take money from other people to pay for charity are somehow considered by some to be more noble than private business people who dispense their own companies' funds to charity? There is no sacrifice, no moral action in forcing another to pay for charity. It's really quite a simple concept, people who give of their own free will hold a much higher moral ground than those who force others to give, regardless of the legality of their actions.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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