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Offlineblackout
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Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active component BE
    #4689273 - 09/21/05 07:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? just trying to figure out if they are worth the bother of growing. e.g. if you they were twice as strong as cubes but yeilded 1/4 the amount, I would stick with cubes.

Also which active species has the best biological efficiency for producing active components? i.e. how many doses per 100g of grain. I would guess growing mexicana sclerotia. (I don't want a big debate on varying substrates oh if you grow on poo etc...)


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: blackout]
    #4689560 - 09/21/05 11:11 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think that ease of achieving the high BE's should be taken into consideration.  Compare cubes and sclerotia for a quick example.  Nearly anybody can get 100-200% BE of mexicanna sclerotia.  Many intermediate-advanced growers I know are having a damn hard time reaching the 200% barrier with cubensis on a reliable basis.  That's got to account for something i would think.

On the other hand, BE is only a measure of yield per unit of substrate.  Considering that one can fruit 3-5 batches of cubes in the amount of time it takes to harvest sclerotia, BE may be lower with cubes, but BE/unit of time to harvest is much higher with cubes.

That aside, I've never managed to acheive anywhere near 100% BE with pans.  Keep in mind I've grown them only about 10% as much as I've grown cubes.

Personally I made the judgement that the efficiency for producing psilo was going to come down between sclerotia and cubes, and cubes are more fun than sclerotia, so that's how I made my decision.

I find that BE is a useful tool for comparing how well a grow is going, relative to similar grows.  But maximizing BE is only relevant if substrate is your limiting factor.  Given the scale most people grow on, and the value (not monetary value btw) of the finished product compared to the cost of the substrate, most people have other limiting factors than substrate mass.  I usually use the other limiting factors to plan grows, or to give advice.  Stamets refers to this as "not chasing the optimum".

Maximising the yield of actives per unit of time, volume, area, work hours, skill, legal risk, contam risk etc is usually more productive for most growers.

(and yes, btw, I know I didn't directly answer your question, but rather added my thoughts on the subject :wink:


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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: mycofile]
    #4689968 - 09/21/05 01:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks mycofile, all makes perfect sense, I have mentioned some of the points while recommending sclerotia grows. Per unit area and maintenance time, substrate cost etc I think nothing can come close to them. But cubes are more fun, come back after 2 days and see a big crop, while the boring old sclerotia jar is just sitting there!
I got over 200% BE in a recent mini cube grow but was hanging on to it just for the sake of it, I know many toss theres after the 3rd flush as it is not worth the effort, time is worth more than substrate.

It was both an academic question and practical too. Many beginners talk of moving up to pan cyan straight away unaware of the decrease in, lets call it "doses per man hours of effort". Cost is minimal, you mention 100% BE so in the same terranium and effort you can probably get more doses with cubes than pans. I would compare it to getting a bottle of whiskey vs a keg of beer, where the whiskey actually takes more skill to produce.

you say
"Considering that one can fruit 3-5 batches of cubes in the amount of time it takes to harvest sclerotia, BE may be lower with cubes, but BE/unit of time to harvest is much higher with cubes"
Are you saying less man hours are involved in harvesting and maintaining 3-5 flushes than harvesting a batch of sclerotia? Sclerotia harvesting is a pain, but I think there are less hours work overall harvesting it than cubes. Or are you talking of the entire grow time, i.e. up to 6 months until harvest?
If I was growing commercially it would certainly be sclerotia, stacking jars high, rotating them on an ongoing basis. 10 new gallon jars up today, 10 harvested today.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: blackout]
    #4695998 - 09/22/05 06:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Are you saying less man hours are involved in harvesting and maintaining 3-5 flushes than harvesting a batch of sclerotia?



No, total time, not man-hours. And batches as in crops, not flushes. As in you can do 3 "generations", getting 3 flushes from each, in the number of days it takes for sclerotia to mature. Hmmm, this still isn't sounding very clear. Let's try it like this.
Month 1, start your mexicannas, harvest 3 flushes of cubes
month 2, mexicannas incubate, harvest 3 more flushes of cubes
month 3, sclerotia's ready to harvest, 3 more flushes of cubes ready to harvest.
But yeah, it all depends on what you like. I love eating pans, I think all sclerotia have a neato factor, and cubensis is the trusty standby. Wood lovers are a different beast all-together since they are exclusively outdoor species, you are limited to a few harvests a year, and a very low efficiency. But it's great to have a christmas blow-out on some wood lovers. Fuck, I love 'em all!


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"From a certain point of view"
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PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Edited by mycofile (09/22/05 06:07 PM)


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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: mycofile]
    #4699163 - 09/23/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The thing with sclerotia is the lack of equipment needed, and the "stackability" factor. I could have a small room 1/3 the size of the one you are doing your cube crops in. With jars stacked top the ceiling. While you are maintaining and harvesting the cube grows, you could be making more and more sclerotia bags/jars.

I have been considering ways to do extreme bulk sclerotia, I would love to see how commercial operations do it. I was thinking of 5 gallon carboys being fractionally sterilized in a big 50 gallon drum steamer. The cost would be minimal to set this up.
Both have there place, I just wish more people would be experimenting with sclerotia.


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InvisibleThumpaCap
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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: blackout]
    #4699173 - 09/23/05 04:36 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

just don't flip that coin and 'study' both pan cyans AND cubies
:shrug:


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Whats the average biological efficiency of pan. cyan? Which species has the best active componen [Re: blackout]
    #4700449 - 09/23/05 02:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Why use the carboys? I don't see how they would be any more efficient than smaller jars, and I definitely don't see how they would be better than large bags.

You do bring up a good point though, a large retort would be needed to efficiently produce large amounts of grain-based sclerotia media, while a small pressure cooker and a much simpler pasteurization method can fill the planet with a cubensis mycelium.

All in all if you are really interested in large scale sclerotia production, I would recomend spawn bags.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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