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OfflineELESDEE
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 10
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
First time shroomer
    #468514 - 11/24/01 06:40 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

Hello everybody!!! Im new here.

I have a question. I have never taken shrooms or any hallucinogen in my life, but I have smoked my fair share of cannabis. My question is, how can I make myself not have a bad trip? I am waiting for shrooms to come to my town so I can try them, but I am having bad thoughts of having a bad trip. Sometimes when I smoke and drink w/ some friends, I always think of negatives. Not thoughts about getting caught and what not, but about what other are thinking of me and if I am being mean to others and I dont realize it?? It sometimes happens to me, and I dont want this to happen when I take shrooms. Any comments??? Thanks everyone! im out later


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OfflinegeokillsA
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
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Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 19,103
Loc: city of angels
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Re: First time shroomer [Re: ELESDEE]
    #468522 - 11/24/01 06:54 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

just read up on what to expect by pokin around this site. also check out the trip reports section to see how other's have experienced this psychedelic. but above all, the most important thing to remember in not bad tripping is that everything you are experiencing will go away within a few hours. i've never had negative thoughts on a trip, usually i am incredibly happy. shrooms are not like cannibis, you don't get that aspect of paranoia that so many do when smokin weed. just remember if you start losin it to remember that it will end soon enough and you will be back to 'normal.' good luck and enjoy!


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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OfflineHBS
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Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 42,528
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: First time shroomer [Re: geokills]
    #468534 - 11/24/01 07:15 PM (15 years, 20 days ago)

shrooms CAN give you paranoia, but usually only if you are in a public place / around people who don't accept drugs. It isn't too intense, but it happens.


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OfflineOpivynfg
journeyman

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 95
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: First time shroomer [Re: HB]
    #469200 - 11/25/01 02:29 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

Just find a chill place to relax. Like a good room with some good music and nice things to look at. Just avoid mirrors. When I see them I look like a dying rat and get scared


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So you thought you might like to go to the show...


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: ELESDEE]
    #469215 - 11/25/01 03:10 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)



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OfflineHBS
Male

Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 42,528
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: First time shroomer [Re: Anonymous]
    #469263 - 11/25/01 04:02 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

i seriously hope that you are joking bigidiot, if you can't tell the difference between shrooming and smoking bud then you've never shroomed or have always gotten bunk shrooms


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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
veteran
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
Re: First time shroomer [Re: HB]
    #469271 - 11/25/01 04:09 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

i dont know maybe he has a really high tolerance to shrooms

i remember this one time in class i thought i sawthis chick blow out a huge cloud of superthick smoke and i wasjust stoned then i started laughing (musta been somesuper weed) but it was just in my periphereal (sp?) vision


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were all retarded sometimes


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Offlinejustthiz
prozac über alles
Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 453
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: First time shroomer [Re: Anonymous]
    #469277 - 11/25/01 04:14 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

On weed i get it sometimes too, when i'm not in a more or less "public" place...
With mushrooms when i use them at my friends house, where u feel comfortable i've never gotten those paranoia feelings...
At one times i had all the negative feelings (around me) ...>>> my friend feeling bad, freaking out etc while tripping, being overwhelmed by my own trip ... like while tripping with the right mindset you can create some kind of possitivity and you could even go like "What the hell if someone would find out we are doing this stuff, this is just TOOOOO amazing" well that kind of feeling can happen too!!! Don't forget it ... of course there is a possibility of having bad feelings or even going on a "bad trip"... but a lot depends on what YOU try to get out of it... just REMEMBER before and while you're tripping that EVERYTHING IS!!!! YES EVEN WHILE TRIPPING YOU CAN REASSURE YOURSELF THIS : EVERYTHING IS OK!!! :smile: DON'T WORRY ... there are so many people who've been there before and THEY were people too, it's not like they were superhumans who never had doubts while tripping i sure have mine , but this is what makes tripping so AMAZING... you'll c that everything is just the way YOU want it to be... just remember not to be Too hard on yourself !! relax and go with the flow... let yourself flow whereever it will take you and you'll have the magnificent undesrcirbable experience we call a "trip" :smile:
Just think too yourself .... life's so wonderfull ....why?? waste time worrying just go with it, don't resist ... try to make things possitive, be kind to everyone... look at things in a POSITIVE WAY and you'll cry from happyness

Hope this helped!!!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 12,757
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Re: First time shroomer [Re: ELESDEE]
    #469401 - 11/25/01 06:30 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

I posted some unpaid-for professional advice under jinc's 'acid...first time' post. Take it or leave it, but I'd add that your use of the perjorative medical term "hallucinogen" indicates that you've already bought in to society's labels, so watch out. In my day they were 'psychedelics,' and today the term 'entheogen' is perhaps the best [God generated within]. Names are 'seeds,' whole models are contained in these names like an entire oak tree is contained in a single acorn. Hallucinations means pathology - mental illness - 'hallucinogen induced psychosis' in the (medical model) nomenclature. Do yourself a tremendous favor and 'study' about it before you experiment. A model of these things determines your mental 'set.' Know which 'tools' to use for the job. A physician has his medicines and instruments, a magician his wand and circle. Don't go to 'battle' empty-handed.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: First time shroomer [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #469600 - 11/25/01 11:04 PM (15 years, 19 days ago)

> your use of the perjorative medical term "hallucinogen" indicates that you've already bought in to society's labels, so watch out.

All labels are socially constructed. Language is social, if you haven't forgotten. If he used the term "entheogen" it just means that he's bought in to this subculture's labels. Entheogen means "becoming divine within" or "creating inner divinity". That label in itself may not be what he's searching for (not everyone sees using these drugs/psychedelics/hallucinogens/entheogens as paths to spirituality, or as light bringers on divinity).

Hallucinogen simply means a substance that produces hallucinations, or a substance that causes one to imagine that they are perceiving things which do not exist.

Neither one is more correct than the others, though they are attatched to their own models. "Hallucinogen" being correlated with a substance causing an effect on the mind; "Entheogen" with an agent causing inner spirituality.

Some people aren't on the Road to Eleusis.

> Hallucinations means pathology - mental illness - 'hallucinogen induced psychosis' in the (medical model) nomenclature.

And there's nothing wrong with that. In that model you can view chemicals like LSD or psilocin as technological tools to temporarily experience pathological states. Why is this something to avoid?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: First time shroomer [Re: Kid]
    #469805 - 11/26/01 07:51 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

All very good points - up until the last. Your adherence to the medical model with regard to considering certain altered states to be pathological states in dated. The old terms like 'psychotomimetic,' mimicking psychotic states, is just not as phenomenologically accurate as some of the ancient sacred models. Even with Strassman's book on DMT, does this become evident. Read Stan Grof's works - absolutely unsurpassable in experience. He began with the medical and Freudian models, and quickly learned how inadequate they are. For medicine, Hindu samadhis or Buddhist jhanas (all intricately described) are reduced to dissociative states, with derealisation and depersonalization. Psychedelics can elicit pathologies in people predisposed, but when the experience of transmigration which is also called metempsychosis is experienced, the medical model merely relegates it to psychosis, introduces Thorazine, and says in effect 'you're hallucinating, you've gone crazy temporarily, calm down and try to forget about it - it's not real, it's not valid.' What remains as pathology in our culture, can be seen as rare and valuable in other cultures. Those cultural models allow for human growth and development to 'higher' ways of being.

Now clearly, there is a difference betwen a madman and a hierophant of the sacred. Read R.D. Laing's 'The Politics of Experience.' Paranoia, delusions of grandeur, can pump up a Charles Manson character. Real religious experience on the other hand can be demonstrated by the actions that flow from a person. One doesn't choose to be, as you so aptly put it, "on the road to Eleusis," because as a human 'beings,' the spiritual nature of our awareness is all too evident. That we are on a journey from impersonal through personal to transpersonal stages of development is inescapable, though some beings may fight it tooth and claw.Those who numb and dumb themselves down with TV, alcohol, downers and habits are those who refuse to carry on, as those who shake their fists at God (Ahab Complex - "...from Hell's heart I stab at thee...")

It's the Sacred and the Profane being questioned here. Sexual intercourse is just f**king for the profane, Divine Union for the Sacred. Wine can be drunkenness or a vehicle for Holy Communion. Hallucinogens can be Entheogens. I hold to the Sacred models because they have allowed my personal transformation whereas the material models did not. And so I left biomedical studies to become a philosopher. Would YOU rather become a madman or a mystic?


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: First time shroomer [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #470061 - 11/26/01 03:16 PM (15 years, 18 days ago)

> Your adherence to the medical model with regard to considering certain altered states to be pathological states in dated.

Altered ('entheogenic') states from ingesting chemicals and 'hallucinogenic states' fall within the same realm. Their connotations, of course, are very different. I agree that psychotomimetic is not a good word, because, as you pointed out, most drugs simply do not replicate any of the phenomenological states and some objective behavioural manifestations of DSM listed mental illnesses.

Hallucinogenic activity does not necessarily have to be seen as pathological. Definitions of hallucinogenic do imply a pathological category of its own (hallucinogen producing temporary mind disease, though not necessarily replicating another mental disorder).

Of course, "disease" and "pathology" have their negative connotations, but hallucinogen in itself is not always attatched to the pathological. Hallucinogen means that it is capable of producing hallucinations.

Whether or not hallucinations are desirable to you, or valid to you, is up to you.

> Psychedelics can elicit pathologies in people predisposed

I would disagree here. The etiology of mental disorders is on sketchy ground in itself, but there is evidence that environmental factors play a large role in the development of mental illnesses. I see no reason why a "normal" person is to be excluded from the possibility of developing a mental illness from a hallucinogenic/entheogenic experience.

> What remains as pathology in our culture, can be seen as rare and valuable in other cultures.

Again, I don't think hallucinogens have to be seen as producing pathological states. The term "psychotomimetic" has been going out of fashion. I think this reflects the trend that chemically altered states are being viewed less as temporary disease states, even when the term "hallucinogen" is being used.

However, I entirely agree. Moreso, I think there's a lot of room, in our (sub)culture that hallucinogens can be seen as producing desirable and valuble states (esp. MAPS studies, early work with psychedelics as though they were technologies, and the quite common view that these drugs can inspire creativity).

Views of psychedelics/hallucinogens/entheogens being valuable are present in Western culture. The problem is that there is not any discipline to deal with these chemicals, so people are forced to use words to categorize these drugs/agents with meanings and connotations that don't represent how users may see them. That's why I don't think using the word "hallucinogenic" isn't problematic in itself. It's a way of categorizing these chemicals, just as is the term entheogen.

I suspect that until you revealed it in this thread that most people didn't know the roots of the word "entheogenic", but that when you use the word, they know what you're referring to.

> One doesn't choose to be, as you so aptly put it, "on the road to Eleusis,"

I think some people who choose to use substances choose to believe that they are on that road, but perhaps that is just a method of legitimizing their use in a world that constructs drug use as a self-destructive act.

You seem to imply that our natural awareness is a spiritual one and that Westernized culture (scientific objectivity) is at odds with this awareness. Perhaps this isn't your implication, but maybe just my own insight. I think that there's room for both types of awareness, which is why I don't object to the use of the term "hallucinogen" by someone who wants to use drugs for personal/spiritual reasons.

> Wine can be drunkenness or a vehicle for Holy Communion.

I agree, which is why I think it's a shame that many people here view alcohol as a "lesser" or even an outright "evil" drug. It has a long history amongst poets and writers, who claimed that it inspired their creativity.

> Hallucinogens can be Entheogens.

I think we're not disagreeing anymore. :-)

> Would YOU rather become a madman or a mystic?

Sometimes, I think I'm both.


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Invisible311Alien
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 16
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Have fun [Re: ELESDEE]
    #470963 - 11/27/01 10:42 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Every one experiences drugs differently, it's kinda hard to say just what will happen. Shrooms are wild, wild but fun.
So give it a couple trys w/ some different strains to see a spectrum on how your bodie dances to music of shrooms.

NOTE: It can be intense (colors, warping, paranoia, and many other possable visuals) or just really funny, so I would start with a 2-3g dose and wait 20mins to see if you want some more.
Happy triping.


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It's a waste to be a hater


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InvisibleKid
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Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Have fun [Re: 311Alien]
    #471096 - 11/27/01 02:35 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Wait only 20 minutes? Jesus. Wait more like an hour and a half...


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Invisibledownforpot
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Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Have fun [Re: Kid]
    #471792 - 11/28/01 12:22 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

i almost always think negative thoughts even when not on shrooms, but when im shrooms i dont think about nothin. i just look at the carpet for an hour or the walls, anythin that moves and isnt supposed to move. like my friends face, it was water, i swear, i wanted to take a paddle and smash it, heh


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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