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Offlinenonick
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 537
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
libertarian roll call
    #4684026 - 09/19/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i don't mean who is in the libertarian party, just if you understand the principles of freedom.

you know who you are! let's see it.

-nonick


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684031 - 09/19/05 11:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I suppose you could throw me in the ranks.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: libertarian roll call [Re: daimyo]
    #4684040 - 09/19/05 11:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I am ex-libertarian.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684043 - 09/19/05 11:08 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a member of the Libertarian Party, but my views currently reside somewhere between libertarian and liberal.


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684071 - 09/19/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I will be voting libertarian if they can come up with a good candidate. I am looking for a message that endorses state rights AND the responsability that goes with it as well as eliminating meaningless laws, taxes, and spending. I hope this happens for the good of our country.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Silversoul]
    #4684072 - 09/19/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Me too, for the most part.


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Offlinenonick
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Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 537
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Silversoul]
    #4684085 - 09/19/05 11:15 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

how can you be an ex-libertarian?? understanding the principles of freedom at some point in your life...then losing them?? it doesn't compute.

and a libertarian/liberal??? what the hell is that? are you against gun ownership or something?

you either understand freedom or you don't. its pretty simple stuff.

-nonick


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684106 - 09/19/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nonick said:
how can you be an ex-libertarian?? understanding the principles of freedom at some point in your life...then losing them?? it doesn't compute.

and a libertarian/liberal??? what the hell is that? are you against gun ownership or something?

you either understand freedom or you don't. its pretty simple stuff.

-nonick




Libertarians have a lot of things right, except foreign policy. Plus I have turned into one of those "don't want to waste my vote" crowd and I honestly think thats sad, but what I must do.

I still vote libertarian across the board on local and state elections though.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: looner2]
    #4684136 - 09/19/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Don't fool yourself, voting Democrat or Republican is throwing your vote away.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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Offlinenonick
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 537
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: looner2]
    #4684143 - 09/19/05 11:22 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

foreign policy really is the thorn in the side of the libertarian movement, isn't it? and of the objectivist movement as a whole, really. and actually, i agree with you that the libertarian outlook on foreign policy isn't so hot at the moment.

but i can't agree about supporting democracy. i would feel so bad if i voted. i dont want to legitimize anyone who is elected democratically by participating in the election that got them there. even if i voted against them.

-nonick

btw...im not a rand fan. but the objectivist center is cool.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684148 - 09/19/05 11:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nonick said:
how can you be an ex-libertarian?? understanding the principles of freedom at some point in your life...then losing them?? it doesn't compute.

and a libertarian/liberal??? what the hell is that? are you against gun ownership or something?

you either understand freedom or you don't. its pretty simple stuff.

-nonick



Perhaps when you move past such a simple-minded outlook like I did, you'll come to realize that the world is a complex place that doesn't always fit so neatly into such a simple, pre-packaged ideology. As for the libertarian/liberal thing, no I do not support gun control, but I do see a greater role for government in public utilities and services than most libertarians will allow for. I also have come to see laissez-faire capitalism as flawed, and advocate Georgism instead. And I see a certain degree of environmental regulation as necessary.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: nonick]
    #4684149 - 09/19/05 11:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nonick said:
how can you be an ex-libertarian?? understanding the principles of freedom at some point in your life...then losing them?? it doesn't compute.

and a libertarian/liberal??? what the hell is that? are you against gun ownership or something?

you either understand freedom or you don't. its pretty simple stuff.

-nonick




Not everything is so black and white. There are no right beliefs, only those used by the country.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: daimyo]
    #4684172 - 09/19/05 11:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Pretty much any half-way decent party that can do away with the current duopoly is good for the country. If you have taken economics, you know that a duopoly is basically a monopoly where the spoils are divided between 2 parties instead of one. In other words, our republic died once the duopolistic equilibrium was hit between dems and repubs. Think about it, our fucking elections are always like 51% to 49%, this isn't a coincidence.

Read: Nash Equilibrium Wiki

The US is a duodictatorship.

Quote:

In game theory, the Nash equilibrium (named after John Nash who proposed it) is a kind of optimal collective strategy in a game involving two or more players, where no player has anything to gain by changing only their own strategy. If each player has chosen a strategy and no player can benefit by changing his strategy while the other players keep theirs unchanged, then the current set of strategy choices and the corresponding payoffs constitute a Nash equilibrium.




Also read Prisoner's Dilemma Wiki


Edited by Catalysis (09/19/05 11:38 PM)


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Silversoul]
    #4684190 - 09/19/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

nonick said:
how can you be an ex-libertarian?? understanding the principles of freedom at some point in your life...then losing them?? it doesn't compute.

and a libertarian/liberal??? what the hell is that? are you against gun ownership or something?

you either understand freedom or you don't. its pretty simple stuff.

-nonick



Perhaps when you move past such a simple-minded outlook like I did, you'll come to realize that the world is a complex place that doesn't always fit so neatly into such a simple, pre-packaged ideology. As for the libertarian/liberal thing, no I do not support gun control, but I do see a greater role for government in public utilities and services than most libertarians will allow for. I also have come to see laissez-faire capitalism as flawed, and advocate Georgism instead. And I see a certain degree of environmental regulation as necessary.




I can't even understand that link to Georgism. It is too economically elite for me. It sounds pretty extreme. Is it at all possible to implement in an advanced society?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: looner2]
    #4684199 - 09/19/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Don't feel bad, I didn't understand it either.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: looner2]
    #4684204 - 09/19/05 11:36 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
I can't even understand that link to Georgism. It is too economically elite for me. It sounds pretty extreme. Is it at all possible to implement in an advanced society?



Easily. We already have the foundation for land value taxation in property taxes. All we'd have to do from there is shift the burden of property taxation off of buildings and onto the land. Then from there, increase the land value tax as we lower all other taxes, until eventually it's the only tax left.


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OfflineWorf
Lt. Commander

Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 15,663
Loc: Final Frontier
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Silversoul]
    #4684214 - 09/19/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think I lie somewhere between libertarian and liberal myself. We should start our own party.


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Kira: What do Klingons dream about?

Worf: Things that would send cold chills down your spine, and wake you up in the middle of the night. No, it is better you do not know


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Worf]
    #4684223 - 09/19/05 11:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

outputrotation said:
I think I lie somewhere between libertarian and liberal myself. We should start our own party.



We can call it the Realist Party.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Silversoul]
    #4684228 - 09/19/05 11:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Then you would be confused with actual "Realists", which is something very different.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: libertarian roll call [Re: Redstorm]
    #4684238 - 09/19/05 11:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm...maybe the Common Sense Party?


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