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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Eugenics [Re: Ravus]
    #4686275 - 09/20/05 02:02 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Who will be the first, to kill the 'errors' coming out, and who is the judge about that ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Eugenics [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4686966 - 09/20/05 05:18 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

The judge is whoever has the power to judge, whether it be priests, leaders or scientists. What do the lives of the weak matter compared to the decisions of the powerful?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Eugenics [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4686989 - 09/20/05 05:24 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

At first I would consider the errors coming out to be nothing more than an experiment gone wrong. No reason not to abort the experiment. Unless of course gene therapy was used to correct the errors.

I wonder if the rate of suicide will go up among the genetically inferior/unmodified.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4713878 - 09/26/05 11:50 AM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What are your thoughts on eugenics? Good? Bad? Keep it limited? Enact policy upon entire world? What traits to breed for? What to eliminate?




psuedo science at best. From the start it was created by Europeans, and it has a pre-determined conclusion, where most researchers deemed such things as the size of the skull, to the size of the brain, to the amount of intelligence that person could have.

after years of doctored tests, and fucking bumbling techniques, I hope that we can all forget this waste of time, and mostly racist / sexist type of "science."

I suggest you read some more about the actual facts of Eugenics, AFTER WWI.

fucking hogwash


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #4714163 - 09/26/05 12:44 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

hmm. i didnt even take the time to find out what "eugenics" meant. if it means some kind of racial cleansing program, count me the fuck out. I just assumed it means like genetic research and gene surgery...


meh.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Eugenics [Re: Moonshoe]
    #4714189 - 09/26/05 12:49 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

No, you're right. Eugenics is not genocide, it's not racial cleansing, nor is it any of the other bullshit people throw at it. These things have co-existed at the same time, but it was because of the lunacy of the leaders and population at the time; eugenics is just a tool, and one that is potentially very beneficial to humanity.

Eugenics is a social philosophy which advocates the improvement of human hereditary traits through social intervention. The goals have variously been to create more intelligent people, save society resources, lessen human suffering and reduce health problems. Proposed means of achieving these goals most commonly include birth control, selective breeding, and genetic engineering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

In the modern age, genetic engineering is obviously the only viable way; selective breeding and birth control are failures, as genetics are so unpredictable from natural ways, not to mention the intrusion upon people's rights. Eugenics should be a voluntary way to improve the human race, not a forced one, and those who want to reproduce naturally without trying to improve the genetics on their children should be allowed to in my opinion.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: Ravus]
    #4714264 - 09/26/05 01:01 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

the very foundation of which eugenics was created and based upon was flawed with pre-determined conclusions instead of scientific theories.

there is no such thing as a smart gene, just as there is no such thing as a beauty gene.

just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, intelligence is determined by the tester.. and if the subject is of a different culture, of course they will seem uneducated when responding to questions.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #4714279 - 09/26/05 01:04 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
there is no such thing as a smart gene, just as there is no such thing as a beauty gene.




Those are some hefty claims there. Got any sources to back them up?

Too bad Robert Graham died and we probably won't ever get to really study the children of his work.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: daimyo]
    #4714311 - 09/26/05 01:09 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Those are some hefty claims there. Got any sources to back them up?




i must restate, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just as the potential for intelligence is only hindered by environmental and biological defects, but there is not a single gene that can be attributed to either.

Edit: What source could be credible on the definition of beauty or the prime example of intelligence?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

Edited by kotik (09/26/05 01:16 PM)

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Eugenics [Re: Ravus]
    #4714377 - 09/26/05 01:20 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

In my eyes, as long as man does not know enough about the relation from genes with live, it is an extreme risky game to play, especially, because it is hard to transfer scientific experimental results from other beings to humans...
So we can't forsee yet, what results on our entire population these experiments will have in the long-shot...

(we can't forsee it for plants yet either)


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #4714611 - 09/26/05 01:58 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't ask for a credible source on the definition of beauty. I asked for your source(like this) on which you make the claim that there is no beauty or intelligence gene.
Or is it that you don't wish to believe there are such genes?


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: daimyo]
    #4714936 - 09/26/05 02:54 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

i can do little else but again suggest reading Mismeasure of Man by Stephen Jay Gould. Short of retyping his entire book in this forum, there would be no other way to convey the information and misinformation put forth since the early 1800s (and probably earlier).

"I asked for your source on which you make the claim that there is no beauty or intelligence gene."

well then i will retract the statement if it keeps you up at night without a source. it's rather a conclusion that i have come across shared by many other people, some of which are much more qualified to explain it than myself...

but if that link you posted is really the type of source you would like, I cannot help you, for I don't have a very good ability to read bare facts such as those and come to any kind of conclusion. It was merely a fact sheet, and fact sheets alone neither prove nor disprove anything.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #4715007 - 09/26/05 03:07 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I see in your other post, you have already read the book. (did you read the revised 1996 edition? I have not.. I have the original 1981 hardcover edition).

regarding Neo-Lysenkoism, IQ, and the Press, I believe I have read that, but in different context.. perhaps a different author, but it rings to the same tune.

They both point out innacuracies in Gould's statements, but none of which change anything that he came up with. He basically debunked the greater part of 100 years of research into the matter, only to discover it was founded upon great prejudice and irregular, inconsistent methods.

Another fine book that is somewhat related to the subject that you may find interesting is Guns, Germs, and Steel.. which has more of the historical aspect to it..

or The Bell Curve Wars: Race, Intelligence, and the Future of America which goes on more about the cultural aspect of intelligence.. i believe it was written by Steve Frasier.

Measured Lies : The Bell Curve Examined by Joe Kincole (last name is probably misspelled)

I just recently finished Mismeasure for the 2nd time, so it is very fresh in memory, and I plan to buy another book called "Intelligence, Genes, and Success: Scientists Respond to The Bell Curve" that is supposed to be really good (although amazon reviews claim it is biased).


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Offlinedaimyo
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #4715076 - 09/26/05 03:25 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the suggestions. I will check into them.

The problem I have with Mismeasure(aside from the methods used to draw the conclusions) was that it dealt with debunking the first wave of eugenics study more than it dealt with eugenics itself. I agree that eugenics could have been(probably was) started out of racism, but I do not care about that aspect of it.

100 years ago we did not have anywher near the information we have now on DNA and different genes. I believe that if we apply todays knowledge to yesterdays science we can come up with some amazing results.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Eugenics [Re: daimyo]
    #4715133 - 09/26/05 03:33 PM (18 years, 6 months ago)

I must admit I share your same curiosity, however I am still interested in how and why it started, rather than its application in current times.

Keep me up to date on anything you find interesting!


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Eugenics [Re: kotik]
    #20024243 - 05/22/14 09:52 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
I must admit I share your same curiosity, however I am still interested in how and why it started, rather than its application in current times.

Keep me up to date on anything you find interesting!




Cracked article

Albeit a humour site I found this interesting nontheless. Certainly interested in LRP5 mutation now.

Evolution is so interesting. Yay Eugenics.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Eugenics [Re: Beanhead]
    #20024306 - 05/22/14 10:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

All people named 'Eugene' should be put down. :sadyes:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Eugenics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20028440 - 05/23/14 03:45 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

gene therapy to promote
more cuteness
less lameness
more artness
less dumbness


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Eugenics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #20028446 - 05/23/14 03:54 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Cuter than this?



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Eugenics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #20028554 - 05/23/14 05:39 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

below is cute
above is vewwy bunny


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