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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
 
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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 Re: Acid...first time.  [Re: jinc]
#469800 - 11/26/01 05:12 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I hear your dissapointment, but you demonstrate both faith and wisdom by your decision. You've got a whole lifetime ahead of you - don't compromise it by interferring with a critical growth period during adolescence. You have to struggle from what Jean Piaget and developmental psychologists call the passage from Concrete Operational Thought to Formal Operational Thought. Schools measure this attainment of logical thinking in most states by the mastery of algebra (with which I had a terrible time). All shamanistic cultures prepare their novitiates. Study and prepare. You'll thank yourself. Peace.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: DXMHEAD420]
#469801 - 11/26/01 05:16 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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You've already evidenced poor judgement with your uncaring and rebellious response. You oughta respect your experienced elders.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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 Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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> Maybe YOU don't need a HS diploma,
I think they made a comedy film about this in the last year or so. Basically, in some jurisdictions, since psychotherapists don't necessarily make statutory diagnoses, they don't need any professional qualifications. Though, sure a psychotherapist could be an M.D.
Though I do rescind my implication that you were uneducated, and apologize, as well.
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DXMHEAD420
veteran
Registered: 12/09/00
Posts: 886
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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no i haven't. you cannot make a blanket statement like it will fuck up everyones development if taken as an adolescent. i was and am more mature than most others my age. i dont know if this has anything to do with my development not being stunted, but its not.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 4 days, 17 hours
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: jinc]
#471035 - 11/27/01 10:57 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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hmmmmm...
well, cannabis has been called a "minor" psychedelic... but the ASCs induced by the "majors" are at least an order of magnitude heavier...
there is a lot to be said for waiting until you are "grown up" --- whether that is 17 or 19 or 21, well...
and as to first encounters with profound ASCs... well, some folks have gotten in pretty deep using techs like meditation, hypnosis, prayer, ecstatic dancing, magick, etc...
do spend some time checking out the literature of the last 50+ years on tripping mindscapes (some on line sources might include csp, psychedelic library, the fane, erowid, lycaeum, etc... and don't forget your local public library --- if they don't have it, they can order it for you via interlibrary loan service... and there are several online booksellers who specialize in psychedelic titles...)
anyways, ya don't have to try to fit a lifetime of tripping in before you turn 21, ok? nothing wrong with waiting until you are a nominal "adult" (fwiw...) --- i was in college before i smoked, drank, or tripped (and at that, sometimes i wish that i had waited a bit longer, hehheh...)
~~~
& probably the most important single thing you can do is to "pay attention"
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,075
Loc: city of angels
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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 Re: Acid...first time. [Re: jinc]
#471879 - 11/27/01 11:37 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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i think dxmhead said it best: if you think you're ready to trip, then by all means do it.
but know that you really want to do this. make sure to read around a bit (if you already haven't) and get a feel for what you're gettin into. i first tried shrooms right after my 17th birthday and was great. i can honestly say that it has done good things for me. lsd on the other hand i have no experience with, partly because some friends who had tried it had a bad experience... and it basically scared me away. i'm 19 now, and i would try lsd should the opportunity present itself, perhaps this june/july/august (yea that's summer time baby!.. on a side note: i think i'm going to become a teacher because they get lots of vacation and it seems like a job i could be happy doing). so if you feel like you want to do it, go ahead - just make sure you're in a comfortable place and i definitely think it imperitive you are not around your parents (unless they are completely cool with you tripping in the house).
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┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: DXMHEAD420]
#472086 - 11/28/01 05:43 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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You, the subject, are not in a position to evaluate whether your development along certain lines (cognitive, affective, social, moral or spiritual) has deviated from the statistical norms. Moreover, if you are still in extended adolescence, which in the US can be mid-20's, then 'the jury is still out.' So you can protest away, but if you're a typical white, late-adolescent male in the US, then you fit into a typical population. Irregardless of how "mature" you 'think' or 'feel' yourself to be compared to your chosen peers, your chronological age at this stage of development determines far more than are willing to accept. Introducing psychedelic 'change agents' before one's essential ego structure has become fairly stable (i.e., mature), has an underminining effect. Transcendence requires a strong resilient ego structure to 'go beyond,' not the absence of one to begin with. The latter condition characterizes a whole continuum of personality disorders which effect the very 'fabric' of one's personality. These mis-formed personalities are permanent 'traits,' not temporary 'states' that can be treated. At best, a therapist can teach coping skills and ways of imitating appropriate behaviors so one 'appears' to be 'normal,' but one is still 'f**ked up' for life. If one work out with heavy weights at too young an age, one can 'f**k up' the growth plates in the long bones, and stunt one's physical height. Wait a few years and there is no problem growing tall as well as getting ripped. Well Bud, your personality also has a critical growth period that can just as easily be interferred with, with permanent results. It's your choice.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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My Third Eye
old hand
Registered: 11/02/00
Posts: 641
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jinc listen to markosgnostic..he knows what he is talkin about..i took a whole bunch of lsd when i was 15 and to this day have permanent side effects from it such as visual disturbances tracers and sleep trouble..you are definately at a critical stage of developement and its best not to risk anything..not everyone ends up getting fucked up from acid but a lot of people do..
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suddenly a flaming stealth banana split the sky
like one would hope but never really expect
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...Holy fucking shit!
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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> jinc listen to markosgnostic
You should try following your own advice. If you were listening to him you would see that he ridiculed the idea of the human subject. Meaning that when you say,
> i took a whole bunch of lsd when i was 15 and to this day have permanent side effects from it such as visual disturbances tracers and sleep trouble
That's a result of your interpretation of what happened. Now, I'm not denying that you have visual disturbances and trouble sleeping, but it's YOU that's attributing the cause of it to LSD. Treatment for you would address the 'fact' that LSD caused this, but that doesn't mean that it's going to happen to anyone else.
> you are definately at a critical stage of developement and its best not to risk anything
Development? From what into what?
> not everyone ends up getting fucked up from acid but a lot of people do..
Doesn't matter how many, it matters how many do compared with how many don't.
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MmmMushrooms
member
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Last seen: 20 years, 10 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: jinc]
#472720 - 11/28/01 06:28 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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For the person who said that mushrooms are 100x stronger than weed, i feel more comfortable talking to my parents on shrooms than i do on weed.
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"This is the greatest thing I've seen since Haley's Comet collided with the moon" -Homer Simpson
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wooly
Stranger
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 1
Loc: toon town
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: Anonymous]
#472735 - 11/28/01 06:37 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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it really doesnt matter that u havnt smoke weed just keep in mind that music can play a very importent role while trippin
i suggest Pink Floyd or the beatles somthing nice and mellow
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Anonymous
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I'm the same way...
I didn't really mean that mushrooms are 100x stronger than weed, the two aren't even comparable. I suppose I meant what you experience and what you gain from it. Don't take the statement so literally, I really don't think it's that hard to understand what I meant, I just explained it wrong.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: Kid]
#478724 - 12/03/01 08:28 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe you should re-read. I'm not in the habit of ridiculing anyone. That would not be exactly consistant with the personality of one in a helping profession, or ethical, or moral, or very nice at all - would it?
As to development...in addition to obvious physical development, which occurs in well-defined stages from conception onward, humans also develop along a number of non-physical vectors. Cognitive, affective, moral, social and spiritual are five domains in addition to the physical that have been used by developmentalists to describe the complexity of human development. Things can and do go wrong at times in all of these (interactive) domains.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (12/03/01 08:36 PM)
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Okay, it was not ridicule.
> You, the subject, are not in a position to evaluate whether your development along certain lines...
No, this isn't ridicule, you're right. I basically took this as though you were offering the postmodern view that human subjectivity was incomplete at best (the Self is unknowable).
> in addition to obvious physical development
What are we developing into, and from what?
> which occurs in well-defined stages from conception onward
Yes, well defined, but that doesn't make them real. Saying they're well defined, medicalizes 'abnormal developers'. I thought that was something you wanted to get away from...
> Things can and do go wrong at times in all of these (interactive) domains.
Wrong?
I'm confused by your point of view now. You were against the use of the term "hallucinogen", for it's association with pathology, but you normalize, and thus pathologize human development itself?
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wintertime
enthusiast
Registered: 07/05/00
Posts: 146
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Markos: just a query.. i first tried LSD when i was (certainly quite young) 15, i used it once and havn't used it since (not because of a bad experience, quite the contrary it was very interesting and enlightening, but because I have been in school until recently and have had other things on my mind). I would like to hear what you think of the medical/developmental implications of a single-time LSD experience on me at that age. It wasn't a high dose, just enough to get a feel. I don't regret it, nor recognize any lasting negative change, but am just curious as to how you think I might have been affected by it developmental-wise?
looking forward to your response.
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: wintertime]
#482758 - 12/07/01 05:43 AM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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I doubt anyone will be able to tell you how your biological development has been altered. IMO, it hasn't in any significant way.
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COZMKSTRCHLD
member
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 113
Loc: sn-sky-mun-strz
Last seen: 20 years, 8 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: jinc]
#483643 - 12/07/01 10:25 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have always said the first time should be with your best friend. As far as games go, I think Jenga is a good time. Don't let non-trippin' people come over. We used to go into the woods to escape parents. A bonfire, some Neil Young, and a poncho is comfort. No stress= Happy Trails
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SherlockDrubu
enthusiast
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 347
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: Acid...first time. [Re: Kid]
#484118 - 12/08/01 01:57 PM (21 years, 9 months ago) |
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>> in addition to obvious physical development
>What are we developing into, and from what?
The obvious development of a child to adult
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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obviously.
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fuzzysquirelnuts
veteran
Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 1,150
Loc: souhwest us
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i believe kid was asking what exactly is the change that takes place from childhood to being a mature adult
i also agree with dxmhead about if you think your ready then you probably are.
i would probably go ahead and smoke some bud before hand just to see how well you can handle that before taking a big leap to lsd ...and if you get paranoid dont take that as how it is when trippin but recognize how you reacted to your paranoia and realize that paranoia is just a fear of unknown dangers and thats what tripping is, an experience of the unkwown...sometimes good sometimes bad...but even when it is bad you need to be able to handle yourself
sorry for the rambling
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were all retarded sometimes
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