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Offlinejasonjamesmorgan
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You are not the body or mind
    #4678090 - 09/18/05 05:44 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You are not the body or the mind. What are you?

It is seen that we are not the body by the fact that our dream body trancend the physical, and deep sleep transends both bodies. If one tries to imagine oneself as dead, it is seen to be impossible. One either sees the body from above or is in the dead body, but the awareness remains.

Awareness is present in deep sleep, or else the continuity of ego would be broken. And you can be woken up from deep sleep, thus proving that awareness of body is present.

It is seen that we are not the mind either. Where is the mind in deep sleep? The mind is just as fleeting as the body. The mind is a collection of thoughts. The thoughts depend on one thought, the I thought. Without the I thought, their is no point of reference or awareness of other thoughts. Holding onto to the I thought to the exlusion of others is a sacred path. This induces the mind to stop, and will leave.... awareness.

The only constant in this whole universe is our awareness of the universe. This awareness is undefiled by anything. It is the mirror apon which the universe is projected.

You are awareness.

Namaste
Om Namah Shivaya
Jason James Morgan


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4678104 - 09/18/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

you trying to do this by logic too?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4678138 - 09/18/05 05:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You are life! :smile:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4678229 - 09/18/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You are not the body or the mind.

It is seen that we are not the body by the fact that our dream body trancend the physical,


Not even close. Try again.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4678242 - 09/18/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

What is the fatal flaw here?

Perception is not the entire body. Just because your brain starts emanating different waves and you begin dreaming, it doesn't mean your body suddenly disappears because your brain has temporarily changed. Have someone watch you while you fall asleep, and they'll tell you once you wake up again your body's been there the whole time.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Swami]
    #4678276 - 09/18/05 06:45 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

well it is close enough, but it is not possible to make the leap
using just logic.
see how swammy (an inveterate logician) succumbs constantly to a morose negativity, albeit a fluffy one since he got the new teddy fleece.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4678292 - 09/18/05 06:50 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I will wager that whenever JJM (or any other poster here) was physically injured by another, he would likely respond by saying something similar to, "Hey, you hurt me!"

The "me" referred to, of course, is the body.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Swami]
    #4678378 - 09/18/05 07:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

i am on your side there 100%
don't hit me


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4678410 - 09/18/05 07:24 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

17. To those who have not realized the Self, as well as to those who have, the word 'I' refers to the body, but with this difference, that for those who have not realized, the 'I' is confined to the body whereas for those who have realized the Self within the body the 'I' shines as the limitless Self.



18. To those who have not realized (the Self) as well as to those who have the world is real. But to those who have not realized, Truth is adapted to the measure of the world, whereas to those that have, Truth shines as the Formless Perfection, and as the Substratum of the world. This is all the difference between them.

hopefully that clears things up a bit, the people who don't understand this dissagree because their measure of truth is adapted to the world and not the Self. but it makes sense logically.


Edited by Deviate (09/18/05 07:27 PM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4680455 - 09/19/05 02:30 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

you are saying that, what is the i that i identify with? and it's just awareness itself. you've posted more a statement about the nature of the construct "i" than a scientific assertion, as i read you.

swami's second criticsm still makes sense in that context tho IMO


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinesignoffate
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4680736 - 09/19/05 03:52 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I'm a turtle!


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: signoffate]
    #4681850 - 09/19/05 02:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

body = tool of mind = tool of 'soul' (?)
:afro:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4682007 - 09/19/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

mind = body


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4682027 - 09/19/05 03:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

how does swami's criticsm make any sense? for example its possible to dream of being well while sick or dream of being sick while well, thus we obviously transcend our physical body in sleep and thus we cannot be the physical body. how can a body experience itself as a different body or without a body? well you can say with a mind but enquire into the nature of the mind and you will see that we are not the mind either.


Edited by Deviate (09/19/05 03:18 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4682052 - 09/19/05 03:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

people are confusing mind or consciousness with the narrative part of a thought train or dream sequence.

the narrative part is the most narrow section of what is happenning in the mind, there is no separation of mind from body - it is a single operating unit.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4682058 - 09/19/05 03:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

There are several factors which go into defining selfhood. There is the physical self, which is the body through which one percieves through the 5 senses. Then there is the conscious self, which is the perciever of these stimuli. Most importantly, however, is the social self, which is defined through our social interactions and identified via the various roles we play. This self could be considered the ego, as it is this form of selfhood which we transcend when we achieve ego loss. The fact that none of these factors is permanent and unchanging is the reason for the Buddhist concept of no-self.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682150 - 09/19/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)


5. The body is a form composed of the five-fold sheath; therefore, all the five sheaths are implied in the term, body. Apart from the body does the world exist? Has anyone seen the world without the body?



6. The world is nothing more than an embodiment of the objects perceived by the five sense-organs. Since, through these five sense-organs, a single mind perceives the world, the world is nothing but the mind. Apart from the mind can there be a world?


Edited by Deviate (09/19/05 03:40 PM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Deviate]
    #4682301 - 09/19/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

body = tool of mind = tool of 'soul'
body=f(mind); mind=f(soul)

Apart from the mind can there be a world
Apart from the world can there be a mind ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: jasonjamesmorgan]
    #4682306 - 09/19/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

"You are awareness"

:thumbup:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: You are not the body or mind [Re: Silversoul]
    #4682396 - 09/19/05 04:40 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
This self could be considered the ego, as it is this form of selfhood which we transcend when we achieve ego loss.




I was under the impression that the self referred to the sum total of all the psychic elements which create the ego?


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