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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief * 1
    #4676761 - 09/18/05 05:59 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Paraphrased ~ "What you have in your life is directly proportional to your belief in abundance."

If this is true, then I guess that the wolf that starves to death must have had neurotic self-defeating beliefs stemming from negative feelings of unworthiness - or maybe there just wasn't enough prey available due to an extra cold winter...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4676787 - 09/18/05 06:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

how do you know what the wolfs beliefs are?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: spudamore]
    #4676794 - 09/18/05 06:27 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I don't, but Dyer's premise is that our negative beliefs block universal good or keep from us what we desire.

I do not accept that premise.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4676801 - 09/18/05 06:30 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
I do not accept that premise.



why not?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: spudamore]
    #4676821 - 09/18/05 06:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

My counter-example clearly demonstrates the fatal flaw in that premise.

Perhaps you would have had to heard his entire lecture to better understand my take on this New Age fluff. He states that we don't have what we need because we don't believe and are not in touch with Source (God).

If that is true for humans, then it is true for all creatures, is it not? My baby cactus died this summer. Do you think it had a negative self image?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4676826 - 09/18/05 06:46 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

but you don't know what the wolfs beleifs are?

so how can you demonstrate something that you don't know?

If that is true for humans, then it is true for all creatures, is it not? My baby cactus died this summer. Do you think it had a negative self image?

i don't know because i am not the cactus.
how would anybody know?


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (09/18/05 06:51 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: spudamore]
    #4676833 - 09/18/05 06:49 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Do you believe that starving creatures die from lack of nutrition?

Do you believe that all creatures that starve are neurotic?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespudamore
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4676837 - 09/18/05 06:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

obtuse? are you assuming?

i believe that i do not know anothers experience in life, so how can one tell?

why point out one aspect of life and not the other millions experiences?
now that seems obtuse to me.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem


Edited by spudamore (09/18/05 07:19 AM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: spudamore]
    #4676916 - 09/18/05 09:04 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hmm.. powerful arguments on both sides...


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4676944 - 09/18/05 09:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
My counter-example clearly demonstrates the fatal flaw in that premise.

Perhaps you would have had to heard his entire lecture to better understand my take on this New Age fluff. He states that we don't have what we need because we don't believe and are not in touch with Source (God).

If that is true for humans, then it is true for all creatures, is it not? My baby cactus died this summer. Do you think it had a negative self image?




My guess is he is referring to the human consciousness and not other animals whom we don't really understand.

I think our thoughts do directly influence our reality. I believe this because I have experienced it over and over and over. I also believe that this is not all that there is to it. IMO there are also outside factors at work on us and they are far reaching in effect. They may be connected to past or even future states and are so intricate that we cannot know their origins for sure. So they seem random. I think we are all getting the exact experiences we need in each moment and event in our lives. This is obvious to my logic because this is what is happening. How could something happen that wasn't supposed to happen? So my reaction and judgment about this will determine to some extent how I experience it, which will lend it's energy to the continuation of the process of my experience. As Don Juan said, "there is always more to everything".


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Icelander]
    #4677092 - 09/18/05 11:13 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I would have to say this has any and everything to do with Maslow's Hierarchy. It's still just a humanist theory, but it's a good one and I'll show you why.

His hierarchy is the "path" to actualization, with each step unable to be obtained without the step before it.

Bottom to top: (paraphrased)
1.Physiological Needs
2.Safety and physical security needs
3.Love and belongingness needs
4.Esteem needs
5.Self-actualization needs

Now which part of this does Swami's example NOT have, that Wayne Dyer's target audience takes for granted? Any guesses? It's 1 and 2. Without 1 and 2, 3-5 are completely moot. His advice has nothing to do with starving people in Africa.

So, for once in a long while, I disagree with Swami.


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Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: freddurgan]
    #4677214 - 09/18/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, Wayne Dyer is a kook. He preys on the hearts and minds of middle-aged women everywhere. Hardly worth giving him the time of day.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: looner2]
    #4677225 - 09/18/05 12:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

He's actually not that bad. I've read one of his books (old book) and it was really good. But you can't sit here and compare advice like this to the needs of starving people. They just dont go together at all.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4678739 - 09/18/05 08:46 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Your example reveals nothing. We have the technology now to dispel much primitive suffering.

Here in America (or England, or another vastly rich country), if you have a computer and can afford to use the internet you have access to more resourcesn than most people in the world. Your thought causes you to gravitate towards certain resources, this effect should be obvious. Now depending on what operating system you have running in your mind, will dictate how you facilitate and use these resources.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Swami]
    #4682960 - 09/19/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wayne Dyer said:
Abundance is not something we acquire. It is something we tune into.




Beyond our basic survival needs (food, water, shelter from the elements) and psychological health needs (love, affection, belongingness, self-esteem), there is a world of wants which we can use to justify our belief in scarcity (since we cannot possible have ALL our wants met).

IMO what Dyer is talking about is the paradigm shift of learning to pay attention to the doughnut rather than the hole.


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Offlinetonygirl1983
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Veritas]
    #4682971 - 09/19/05 07:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Or eat Boston Creme doughnuts...there is no hole.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Icelander]
    #4682994 - 09/19/05 07:23 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

For one, let me say that this is an awesome thread, I like a lot of the points made here, like Maslow's hierarchy and such.

This post actually reminds me of another one I made here a little while back, I'll just quote myself  :wink:

Quote:

Fospher said:
We are everything and nothing and infinity = 0.

How you think you feel, look and act, is what makes you who you are.
Make placebos, convince yourself crazy things that dont exist, and you will be what you convinced yourself.
You are what you think you are, not what others tell you.
Think energy and positive existance and you will be so.
Self-therapy and placebo are the most powerful drugs you'll ever stumble across into.





Quote:

Icelander said:
This is obvious to my logic because this is what is happening. How could something happen that wasn't supposed to happen? 




Do you not believe at random occurrence, like the throw of dice?


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010001100100001001000101!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: tonygirl1983]
    #4683021 - 09/19/05 07:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

MMMMM love that cream filling!!  :wink:


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Offlinetonygirl1983
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: Veritas]
    #4683028 - 09/19/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

At least someone thought that was funny...5 shrooms for you! :grin:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Wayne Dyer on Abundance and Belief [Re: tonygirl1983]
    #4683037 - 09/19/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I believe in the abundance of calories in Boston Creme doughnuts, therefor I choose not to "tune into" them very often. :grin:

(Since I also believe in the potential abundance of my hips.)


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