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OfflineLuke
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Registered: 07/27/05
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Loc: the Well
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Mara devotee
    #4674124 - 09/17/05 10:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I became a devotee of Mara, Buddhist satan. I devoted my whole life.

See by doing this he will not bother me, will not make me unmindful and will not take me away from the truth. He promised me money, women and cars etc. But I said no, I want mindfulness and protection from him. Mara is very savvy and cunning. After I became a devotee it seems hes helping me and keeping me more mindful. When I was not a devotee he was misleading me and putting impure or wasteful thoughts in my head. He is the originator of unmindfulness.

So virtually I have sold my soul somehow.

Ive been a Zen master for almost a year now. Mara has dilluted me so much in this time, making me sway in other directions and so forth. Even make me lose sight of the discipline and principle. But since I am a devotee of Mara I wont have too worry about this.
I can finally fully enjoy the mindfulness of being a Zen master.

The truth will finally glow now. Rejoyce.


Edited by Luke (09/17/05 10:18 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674146 - 09/17/05 10:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Kool dude. You is owned. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674169 - 09/17/05 10:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You fool!  Man was not mean to meddle with such things!  :mad2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Revelation]
    #4674179 - 09/17/05 10:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah. Dude, don't meddle in the affairs of boogy men, you might get splinters in the windmills of your mind. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Revelation]
    #4674191 - 09/17/05 10:38 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
You fool!  Man was not mean to meddle with such things!  :mad2:




It might feel wrong for you as you are not a devotee. For me it feels perfectly fine. Ive never been so mindful, its like im high or tripping.
Because on drugs is when I experience my most mindfulness. But im not on drugs right now and I am very mindful. Its suprising.

For me there is only one Mara.


Edited by Luke (09/19/05 05:30 AM)


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Icelander]
    #4674193 - 09/17/05 10:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

under your furry crawling brow!
a silver bow rings up in inches!
you were afraid you'd be the devil's red wife!
but it's all right - god dug your dance!
and would have you young and in his harem!
dress you the way he wants because he never had a doll!
because everybody made him a boy!
and god didn't think to ask his preference!
you can bring your dress and your favorite dog!
and your husband's cane!
and your old spotted hog!
because in this lifetime!
you've got my human gets me blues!!  :mad2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Revelation]
    #4674211 - 09/17/05 10:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

BOO! :whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Icelander]
    #4674236 - 09/17/05 10:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
BOO! :whoa:




Mara plays the role of supreme being. Its a secret, I should not being telling anyone. He is only deceiving, as he created the concept of Maya. He is also Maya himself. We all know Maya is deceiving. In the end Mara plays a role of a sentient being just as the Buddha. Also Mara has found Nirvana. The thought of total liberation.

But it is true that he is the causer of all evil. But once you become a devotee it will stop making evil for you and he will become friends with you. He is very wise and content.


Edited by Luke (09/17/05 11:03 PM)


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674249 - 09/17/05 11:00 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What makes you so sure that there is a "Mara" and that it is separate from anything?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674261 - 09/17/05 11:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Luke said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
BOO! :whoa:




Mara plays the role of supreme being. Its a secret, I should not being telling anyone. He is only deceiving, as he created the concept of Maya. He is also Maya himself. We all know Maya is deceiving. In the end Mara plays a role of a sentient being just as the Buddha. Also Mara has found Nirvana. The thought of total liberation.

But it is true that he is the causer of all evil. But once you become a devotee it will stop and he will bcome friends with you.





(Tao says WTF) So... Good luck with all that. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: dblaney]
    #4674264 - 09/17/05 11:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
What makes you so sure that there is a "Mara" and that it is separate from anything?




I am not sure. I must remind myself it is all one.


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InvisibleMystikMushroom
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674411 - 09/17/05 11:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Dude, props on your newfound minfullness!

Not everyone will take the same path, but ultimatley everyone is searching for the same thing: To return home to the void.

I feel happy for anyone who makes a commitment to bettering their lives, no matter what the process or beliefs might be.

I don't like it when others "fuck up my x-mas" (rain on my parade lol)...so I don't do it to others.

I hope you find what it is you seek...Nah, actually I *know* that one day you WILL! :smile:


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4674414 - 09/17/05 11:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Although it is all one, Mara is one of the more persistant negative beings. I say you're going to reap what you have sowed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Revelation]
    #4674485 - 09/18/05 12:23 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:whoa: I thought it was the Loc Ness Monster that was the worst.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (09/18/05 12:24 AM)


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Revelation]
    #4674596 - 09/18/05 01:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Revelation said:
Although it is all one, Mara is one of the more persistant negative beings. I say you're going to reap what you have sowed.




I am simply making an example. Everything is an illusion so why does it matter. All that matters is I am remembering the truth. The truth is Zen. Which Mara has been leading me away from Zen. The whole priniciple ithe meaninglessness. How true Zen is almost mindless. Zen makes you. You do not make Zen.

As a Zen master I am filled with lies and sarrow.


Edited by Luke (09/18/05 01:22 AM)


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4675635 - 09/18/05 07:01 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I understand some of what you are saying. I myself had to walk the road of darkness before I could see the light, but I am no longer devoted to that Sickness. That is a part of my past. I respect it very much, but want no part of it in my life anymore. I found power in my self and in love to achieve the kind of motivation needed for positive spiritual growth. The images of mangled bodies in my mind gave no such strength, and a trickster/deciever will only befriend you in order to gain your trust and stab you in the back later.

Sounds like you are practicing "Pure Land" Buddhism... which is quite separate from Zen. I was really turned off by Pure-Land because it seemed too much like idol worship. Don't spread yourself so thick son. The only thing keeping you from achieving Zen is yourself, and personified deities are first and formost symbols of some aspect of our inner self. No doubt that these symbols are quite powerful, but they are symbols none the less.

If I were you I'd watch my pride and humble myself to the status of "Zen Student". Even the master learns something new everyday, and the student who thinks himself a master cuts himself off from this learning and tends to lead others astray...


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: dr0mni]
    #4675657 - 09/18/05 07:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

If I were you I'd watch my pride and humble myself to the status of "Zen Student". Even the master learns something new everyday, and the student who thinks himself a master cuts himself off from this learning and tends to lead others astray...

Well said.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4676533 - 09/18/05 10:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

this reminds me of the guy who thought wishing to be in god's company in heaven was pride and the greatest sin a person could commit, so he devoted his life to all the other evils to make sure he'd go to hell.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4677790 - 09/18/05 11:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Don't settle down with a mind state. Keep moving. Keep changing. Use one for time, then discard it for whatever comes along next. Knowing that all is one includes not holding rigidly to one anything.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: mecreateme]
    #4677979 - 09/19/05 12:03 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

mara is like the devil in the devil
in which case the devil is the nature of associative thought and connections of stimulus to image content from memory;
and mara is the propensity to consider that all mental contents are equal from any source, i.e inner (or memory based) or live feed (sense based).
in a sense there is truth in that, but it pays to keep openning up to "ehhhh...., what's up doc?"
and certainly not latch onto states or contents


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4678023 - 09/19/05 12:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ive never been so mindful, its like im high or tripping.
Because on drugs is when I experience my most mindfulness. But im not on drugs rigfht now and I am very mindful. Its suprising.


Syntax, punctuation, spelling and assorted grammatical errors are the antithesis to mindfulness. These are symptomatic of a wandering, not a focused, mind.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678093 - 09/19/05 12:45 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

or so the swami believes


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4678244 - 09/19/05 01:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

How is that merely my belief?

How can errors that are within the realm of previous experience be indicative of being present and mindful?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678268 - 09/19/05 01:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

puctuation and grammar are communication errors, you are extrapolating to egg us on


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4678277 - 09/19/05 01:45 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Being sloppy is the result of a wandering mind. Period.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678286 - 09/19/05 01:49 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Sloppy ideas lead to sloppy grammar?

Not necessarily. I've met some very focused, creative people with horrible gramar and spelling. Grammar and spelling are simply an issue of following human rules, not natural or individual ones.

Though bad spelling annoys me just as much as the next guy, it doesn't absolutely say anything about the idea or mind creating it.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Ravus]
    #4678317 - 09/19/05 01:58 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Seems you and RGV are not truly familiar with Zen, wherein each single act is of equal importance and requiring the same level of focus.

If I am aware that 'fight' is spelled f-i-g-h-t and I spell it f-i-h-g-t, then I was insufficiently focused. It is a lapse of consciousness. There is no case for the opposite.

Your bringing in the possible brilliance of the mind that misspells is not even remotely relevant to mindfulness.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678325 - 09/19/05 02:03 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one Swami. Zen Masters, and all. :wink: :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Icelander]
    #4678332 - 09/19/05 02:06 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

:shocked: Call Ripley's!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678363 - 09/19/05 02:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Now, now my friend. I have agreed with you often. Think back! If you can't remember then you choose not to. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678400 - 09/19/05 02:22 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Seems you and RGV are not truly familiar with Zen, wherein each single act is of equal importance and requiring the same level of focus.




where did I say
"each single act is of equal importance."?

I did say that mara is "the devil in the devil" (which I guess is too deep a metaphor), entangled, as it were in the miracle of associative thought (which is the devil itself - thank god, HA!).

then I indicated that mara (delusion) makes all things equal regardless of source - where the distinction is - what is happenning outside of memory and imagination as opposed to what is happenning in the memory and imagination area.

the whole thing about fighting is a different area, usually beginning after mara has its grip on the situation, the being begins kicking and lashing out.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4678478 - 09/19/05 02:41 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Seems you and RGV are not truly familiar with Zen, wherein each single act is of equal importance and requiring the same level of focus.

If I am aware that 'fight' is spelled f-i-g-h-t and I spell it f-i-h-g-t, then I was insufficiently focused. It is a lapse of consciousness. There is no case for the opposite.

Your bringing in the possible brilliance of the mind that misspells is not even remotely relevant to mindfulness.




Zen is about the unmediated awareness of one's actions and the world. Therefore, as long as you have unmediated awareness of your typing and misspellings, is it not Zen? :shocked:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Ravus]
    #4678742 - 09/19/05 03:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

the long and the short of it is you can spell like the dickens and still speak garbage


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OfflineLuke
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4679201 - 09/19/05 05:28 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Being sloppy is the result of a wandering mind. Period.




I am sorry, I made a mistake. We all make mistakes.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4679437 - 09/19/05 06:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Ive been a Zen master for almost a year now.

And I can run a 3:30 minute mile...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4679669 - 09/19/05 07:05 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Luke said:
Quote:

Swami said:
Being sloppy is the result of a wandering mind. Period.




I am sorry, I made a mistake. We all make mistakes.




What the fuck are you being sorry about? :tongue: Why are you explaining this in this way? Who the fuck cares. :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4679691 - 09/19/05 07:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
the long and the short of it is you can spell like the dickens and still speak garbage




Or you can spell like garbage and speak like garbage. So what is a Zen Master anyways? How does he differ from the ordinary man/woman or a Zen practioner in general? Master to me means he has mastered something. Am I wrong here? :confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4680363 - 09/19/05 09:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

the long and the short of it is you can spell like the dickens and still speak garbage

Irrelevant. You cannot be unmindful of your acts and be a master of mindfulness.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Luke]
    #4680393 - 09/19/05 09:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I am sorry, I made a mistake. We all make mistakes.

My post was not about you personally.

A Zen Master is careful of each moment and each act. There are no big important details and little irrelevant details. Sitting meditation not carried over into acting meditation is near-worthless and misses the point of za-zen.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4680422 - 09/19/05 09:23 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seems you and RGV are not truly familiar with Zen, wherein each single act is of equal importance and requiring the same level of focus.




how does one decompose action?
am i 25% breathing and 75% typing?
23% breathing and 77% typing?
how do i do the math that figures out what action constitutes a whole act, so that i can attribute equal importance to each?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4680553 - 09/19/05 10:01 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do you make soggy toast or crunchy toast?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4680880 - 09/19/05 12:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

now that is a question to snuggle up with


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: Swami]
    #4680992 - 09/19/05 02:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
...A Zen Master is careful of each moment and each act. There are no big important details and little irrelevant details. Sitting meditation not carried over into acting meditation is near-worthless and misses the point of za-zen...




not too bad a summary, except for the "orientation to details" aspect.
the focus in zen is on totality as opposed to details.

a common error is to confuse asian martial arts and sport with zen - zen is not about a set of skills learned to do competitive routines better, it is fundamentally non-competitive, non-skill based, and it is never actually mastered. (on the other hand some zazen is used in every serious mental culture)

the idea of zen master itself is actually kind of ridiculous, master of "what?"
but at the same time the roshi is a necessary ruse: how else to teach the unenlightened, how else to form/finance a monastery if there is no semblance of formal structure?

the zen master role may even be taken from the karate teacher model as a way to keep the schools going by seeming to be serious skills oriented institutions.

to be hit by the roshi's bamboo pain stick for dozing in zazen is an honourable thing, but it is not discipline, it is progression.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4685990 - 09/20/05 09:36 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

thank you again swami for hijacking the thread through nitpicking stupid details and turning it into something completely irrelevant. If you want to debate about whether mindfulness and proper grammar go hand in hand, then start another thread about it.

Besides, Lukes' "improper grammar" was NOT that bad! What did he do, start a sentance with 'but' or 'because' lighten the fuck up! What are you, a 9th grade english teacher? Oh shit, I hope I didn't end a sentence preposition! I never can catch myself before making such grave grammatical fuck ups...!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4686052 - 09/20/05 09:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe this explains it...

Quote:

A central part of all Zen sects is the notion of "Dharma transmission," the claim of a line of authority that goes back to the Buddha. Originally this derived from the description of Zen attributed to Bodhidharma:

A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence upon words and letters;
Direct pointing to the soul of man:
Seeing into one's own nature and attainment of Buddhahood.




:grin:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: dr0mni]
    #4686093 - 09/20/05 10:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do sloppiness and mindfulness go hand-in hand?

In the book "Way of the Peaceful Warrior", Socrates, the master, berates Dan, the student even after winning a gymnastic trophy because he put his wrist tape on haphazardly. Was he just being a jerk as you think I am? NO! Socrates was trying to get across that ALL acts MUST be of equal importance and requiring the same mental diligence.

What took down the Challenger space shuttle? Was it not a fairly minute detail that was overlooked?

Is your anger at my post any sort of example at Zen centeredness or the result of a mind with no roots blown willy-nilly at the merest perceived slight?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
    #4687182 - 09/21/05 03:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Syntax, punctuation, spelling and assorted grammatical errors are the antithesis to mindfulness. These are symptomatic of a wandering, not a focused, mind.

What about other factors that you do not know about? Perhaps he was rushed. Perhaps he had come home from a night at the pub with his friends. Perhaps someone assumes that people are always focused and mindful when posting on this message board. :cool:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: mecreateme]
    #4687309 - 09/21/05 03:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Were talking about a Zen Master here. Not just a regular wanker like me. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Icelander]
    #4687373 - 09/21/05 03:59 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

as an informal conference - more like a coctail party than a convention of politicos, this can be an easy place to lob comments, and each comment can deflect and guide the thread without actually needing to take control.

from the comment directions on "sloppiness" I think some merit towards getting a grip is generally good, but then to stress it extremely - well that certainly seems to attempt to take control.

if not a zen master, then a nasa master.

to the point, all detail is mara, all mara is suffering. i don't think this topic actually strayed at all. those devoted to pain have been duly pierced by those devoted to inflicting it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4687449 - 09/21/05 04:12 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

There's a history here. Long lines of posts on the Zen thingy. This is what it comes to, and I get your point. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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