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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Do you make soggy toast or crunchy toast?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,268
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 Re: Mara devotee  [Re: Swami]
#4680880 - 09/19/05 03:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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now that is a question to snuggle up with
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,268
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: Swami]
#4680992 - 09/19/05 05:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
...A Zen Master is careful of each moment and each act. There are no big important details and little irrelevant details. Sitting meditation not carried over into acting meditation is near-worthless and misses the point of za-zen...
not too bad a summary, except for the "orientation to details" aspect.
the focus in zen is on totality as opposed to details.
a common error is to confuse asian martial arts and sport with zen - zen is not about a set of skills learned to do competitive routines better, it is fundamentally non-competitive, non-skill based, and it is never actually mastered. (on the other hand some zazen is used in every serious mental culture)
the idea of zen master itself is actually kind of ridiculous, master of "what?"
but at the same time the roshi is a necessary ruse: how else to teach the unenlightened, how else to form/finance a monastery if there is no semblance of formal structure?
the zen master role may even be taken from the karate teacher model as a way to keep the schools going by seeming to be serious skills oriented institutions.
to be hit by the roshi's bamboo pain stick for dozing in zazen is an honourable thing, but it is not discipline, it is progression.
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 dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: redgreenvines]
#4685990 - 09/20/05 12:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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thank you again swami for hijacking the thread through nitpicking stupid details and turning it into something completely irrelevant. If you want to debate about whether mindfulness and proper grammar go hand in hand, then start another thread about it.
Besides, Lukes' "improper grammar" was NOT that bad! What did he do, start a sentance with 'but' or 'because' lighten the fuck up! What are you, a 9th grade english teacher? Oh shit, I hope I didn't end a sentence preposition! I never can catch myself before making such grave grammatical fuck ups...!
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
#4686052 - 09/20/05 12:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe this explains it...
Quote:
A central part of all Zen sects is the notion of "Dharma transmission," the claim of a line of authority that goes back to the Buddha. Originally this derived from the description of Zen attributed to Bodhidharma:
A special transmission outside the scriptures;
No dependence upon words and letters;
Direct pointing to the soul of man:
Seeing into one's own nature and attainment of Buddhahood.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Mara is in the details, zen is in totality [Re: dr0mni]
#4686093 - 09/20/05 01:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do sloppiness and mindfulness go hand-in hand?
In the book "Way of the Peaceful Warrior", Socrates, the master, berates Dan, the student even after winning a gymnastic trophy because he put his wrist tape on haphazardly. Was he just being a jerk as you think I am? NO! Socrates was trying to get across that ALL acts MUST be of equal importance and requiring the same mental diligence.
What took down the Challenger space shuttle? Was it not a fairly minute detail that was overlooked?
Is your anger at my post any sort of example at Zen centeredness or the result of a mind with no roots blown willy-nilly at the merest perceived slight?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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mecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
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 Re: Mara devotee [Re: Swami]
#4687182 - 09/20/05 06:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Syntax, punctuation, spelling and assorted grammatical errors are the antithesis to mindfulness. These are symptomatic of a wandering, not a focused, mind.
What about other factors that you do not know about? Perhaps he was rushed. Perhaps he had come home from a night at the pub with his friends. Perhaps someone assumes that people are always focused and mindful when posting on this message board. 
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No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.
You are everything's way of feeling itself.
Happy Schwag, everygodly!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Were talking about a Zen Master here. Not just a regular wanker like me.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,268
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Re: Mara devotee [Re: Icelander]
#4687373 - 09/20/05 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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as an informal conference - more like a coctail party than a convention of politicos, this can be an easy place to lob comments, and each comment can deflect and guide the thread without actually needing to take control.
from the comment directions on "sloppiness" I think some merit towards getting a grip is generally good, but then to stress it extremely - well that certainly seems to attempt to take control.
if not a zen master, then a nasa master.
to the point, all detail is mara, all mara is suffering. i don't think this topic actually strayed at all. those devoted to pain have been duly pierced by those devoted to inflicting it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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There's a history here. Long lines of posts on the Zen thingy. This is what it comes to, and I get your point. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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