Home | Community | Message Board


Marijuana Demystified
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Why do they do it?
    #4673072 - 09/17/05 06:28 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

For the past few minutes I've been reflecting on an incident that happened in my home town a few years ago. A guy, only 18, gassed himself to death in his truck at his parents house a few days after his girlfriend dumped him. His mom, coming home from work that day found him. A neighbor described the event as horrific as he was mowing his lawn when he heard the most devastating, pained wail a human being could ever make coming from that garage. Looking back on it my sympathy and compassion seems to go out only to the mother, and not to the selfish fuck who robbed his mother of her only little boy at 18.

I'll talk about my own mom here two. If she ever found me hanging in my room I'm convinced 3/4's of her soul would be dragged to the grave with me. I remember one time when a friend of the family's son killed himself (not over a woman, but the end result of years of depression) and when my mom heard the news she immediately told me and my brother how much she loved us. Both of us were like "Uh, ok".. we were teenagers so we didn't really intellectualize it that much.

To me there is a world of difference in selfishness and uncompassion between some old guy who decides to euthanize himself to cut to the chase so to speak (like the HST suicide for example) and some 18 year-old who kills himself in his mother's garage. It's hard to tell whether such a kid is simply ignorant of the relationship between parent and child or simply doesn't care.

Sure, some suicide notes have people begging their loved ones not to blame themselves etc., but really that kind of pre-mortem-plan of consolation is a cop out in my opinion.

I'm a believer in God and Eternal Life, not a religious type but I have my own my understanding of things. I don't believe suicides are lost from any provision, because lets face it, these are weak, sad, pathetic (as in needy of plenty of compassion) human beings but at the same time I wonder if some measurement, chastization is in order depending on the circumstance. Some scenarios, like the one I used here, are simply ruthlessly uncompassionate towards the mother, and reak of utter selfishness. When I first heard of that guy who killed himself, the heart breaking story of his mother finding him, I became infuriated and commented to the girl who delivered the news, "Selfish prick.". She barked at me "Show some compassion.". I responded "If only he had some for his mother."

Maybe I was being blunt, but fuck it, that's life. People should at least wait until their parents are 6 feet under before they "cut to the chase".


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,698
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673140 - 09/17/05 07:42 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

yes, maybe,
but I still wish they didn't do it.

now my other brother keeps contacting me with messages
he declares are direct from the one who took his life, and in this way
they(he) are(is) conspiring to leverage the situation.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #4673180 - 09/17/05 08:22 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Uh, ok


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673283 - 09/17/05 10:03 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree with almost all of your conclusions here, except the no punishment in the afterlife part. :thumbup:

I don't know when people will get it that each persons life belongs to themselves. No one owes anyone anything and each person needs to be able to accept life on it's own terms. Any one who loses their soul when someone else dies is weak and doesn't deserve a soul. And anyone who is so painfully attached to the unbilicial cord as an adult is a "selfish prick" attached to another "selfish prick". So get on with your own life and let others get on or off with theirs as they choose. How you like them apples?:apple:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4673297 - 09/17/05 10:14 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever, man. There's something selfish about killing yourself in your mom's garage no matter how you slice it.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673307 - 09/17/05 10:24 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

We each live our lives selfishly no matter what we do. We either live skillfully or unskillfully and that is the difference.

Now I suspect if someone kills himself in his Mommys garage then this says a world about their true relationship and feelings about each other. She is not innocent here. I guess she had her hand to play in all of this. People don't set out to bring grief to the ones they love and respect. Obviously she did not deserve anything more. Or she would have gotten it. IMO that's how the Universe works in matters of the heart.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 14 days, 9 hours
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673315 - 09/17/05 10:28 AM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Unagipie said:
Whatever, man. There's something selfish about killing yourself in your mom's garage no matter how you slice it.




There's something selfish about any action you undergo, no matter which way you "slice it". Any amount of food that you consume could just as easily be given by you to others. If a serial killer points a gun at you and demands your life, are you thinking about his emotional state?

The reality of the situation is that the mother's reactions and feelings as a result of finding her son dead inside her garage are entirely her own, and are not inherent in the situation itself. The fact is that he killed himself and she found it, and any emotional pain she experienced is a result of her own attachments and demands of reality. Someone completely accepting of reality as it occurs would simply say "This is how it is" and carry on. :grin:

I think it is selfish of others to expect someone else to live. Did you ever consider that? I mean, to you, obviously the man didn't have a good enough reason to justify killing himself (it is also obvious that he never asked you :smirk:), but the thought that someone must meet someone else's expectations of them in order for them to be happy is insane.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673879 - 09/17/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think you're both wrong on this and have no real understanding of death, parenting, compassion, and romantic infatuation. This guy didn't make some thought out, rational choice to euthanize himself. He got his heart crushed by some girl and acted like a selfish 2 year-old over it. And if anyone mentions natural selection I'm gonna roll my eyes like this:  :rolleyes:

Quote:

I think it is selfish of others to expect someone else to live. Did you ever consider that?




Hahahaha... you can't be serious.

I'm sorry I ever posted this here. I should have posted this in Pub where it wouldn't be overkilled by Nietzcheism.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673913 - 09/17/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Natural selection. :grin:  Still his choice. If he has been brought up with such ignorance (unskillfulness) in understanding love, then he learned it from dear mummy and dada. Time to take the medicine. :mushroom2: Sorry I can't indulge in sentimentality with you. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineUnagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
Loc: The Trenches of France
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4673925 - 09/17/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I guess, if that's what you believe. I have my own law and rule of thumb that applies to all reality. If something is uncompassionate, it is sinful and evil. That's just what I've come to know. If one's actions cause others to suffer, it is wrong. I don't know why you can't understand that.


--------------------

Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673940 - 09/17/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I do understand it. I understand that you are being subjective, which is natural. You must understand that your perception of right/wrong, good/evil, is just a construct in your mind and maybe even cultural programming. It's definately subjective and I do not adhere to it myself. I have my own belief system that works better for me. It creates freedom through being responsible for my own feelings and not blaming others for how I choose to feel about anything that happens in my life.

I have no problem with you believing what you believe. Follow your path, but you wanted comments on this incident. We just don't happen to agree with you. No big deal. Peace. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemoog
Stranger

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4673941 - 09/17/05 02:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think it is selfish of others to expect someone else to live.




Losing something you're attached to, will always being some pain. In this situation both the guy and the parent lost something.

But you can't possibly know the pain someone else is going through to lead them to suicide. There's no need to judge them or call them a "2-year-old" (wtf?). If it lessens their pain that's their choice. Choices are all we have.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673954 - 09/17/05 02:10 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Your life is the one thing you can truly claim to own. Thus, it is the one thing that you have an absolute right to destroy if you see it fit to do so. Will others be hurt by it? Undoubtedly. But it is not their choice to make.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4673982 - 09/17/05 02:23 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

i've been in the situation to heftily consider suicide. i don't know why it happens, but it's real and it's the base result of agony that you have no way of knowing how to deal with it.

call it chemicals, call it SOCIETY conditioning you to be a fucking idiot that puts his entire soul into a trivial girl..... who knows what..... but shit happens and you can't blame the person who did it.... you have to be seriously fucked in the head to do something like that over what some would call a "small" issue...... it's not as simple as just saying it was a girl. It was him and he had some fucked up attachment to her, and her leaving him completely flung him over the edge.

when you're like that, you don't want to hurt your family (you may want to hurt the girl) you just want to fucking stop the pain, and so you associate with the "suicide is cool" movement associated with today's youth and you start obsessing over it and then the ideas consume you.

plus was he medicated? If they heavily medicate a suicidal person it's liable to drive them over the edge that much more....

I don't think society treats teenagers right. They are bound and shackled by their parents, their schooling doesn't mean shit all to them..... they have hormones screaming at them to fuck, to leave the house, to find a mate...... but they are forced to conform and stifle all these urges down... so they find a girl and they project all their pent up desires and anxieties and stuff on to her, and believe she is what will make them happy.

this mainly replies to kids that have some degree of repression and/or mental unhealth beause of poor social luck.

it's a horrible thing to do to a family, yes, but it's not about doing something to the family, it's about fixing something you can't deal with.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (09/17/05 02:25 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Unagipie]
    #4673986 - 09/17/05 02:27 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't it just as selfish for the parent to make their child live on in pain just so they don't have to go through pain.


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4674001 - 09/17/05 02:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Any one who loses their soul when someone else dies is weak and doesn't deserve a soul.




somehow i doubt anyone deserves anything.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4674009 - 09/17/05 02:35 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Having said my piece on the right to die, I will admit that this guy did do a stupid, yet understandable thing. I've had a girl bring me to the verge of suicide too, but I got through it, and realized that no girl is worth that much.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4674025 - 09/17/05 02:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Or we deserve everything.  :wink: Maybe better said that we create how we feel about things. My point was that he did nothing to her. She made a decision about how to feel about his choice. He was just living his life. He owed her nothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4674038 - 09/17/05 02:44 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Having said my piece on the right to die, I will admit that this guy did do a stupid, yet understandable thing.  I've had a girl bring me to the verge of suicide too, but I got through it, and realized that no girl is worth that much.




Good choice :grin: IMO these kinds of unskillful choices come about because our parents most often know nothing about self love and so cannot teach it to their offspring. Thinking they have no love if something outside is taken away they decide to end it all. What a joke. Yet deadly serious for many.  :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Why do they do it? [Re: Icelander]
    #4674105 - 09/17/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

She made a decision about how to feel about his choice.




look at envy. when A envies B, A starts finding fault in everything B does. why does A only focus on the bad in B? because of envy. why does a person only focus on one aspect of experience (eg. it's not so bad i lost my son) vs. another? because of some underlying emotion they're repressing.

no matter how much shit a person eats they never like the taste.

maybe i'm wrong? but i've never encountered a choice to feel a certain way that doesn't sound like repression to my ears.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Is it selfish to bring new life into the world?
( 1 2 3 all )
MOTH 3,666 52 01/18/06 10:05 AM
by cookeman
* Are relationships selfish?
( 1 2 3 all )
silversoul7 3,680 54 08/20/04 08:39 PM
by Mad_Buhdda_Abuser
* Is suicide a selfish act?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
headvoid 6,048 87 11/02/06 10:58 PM
by fireworks_god
* Selfishness is Good
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,517 37 04/18/04 05:40 AM
by GazzBut
* Is companionship selfish?
( 1 2 3 all )
leery11 3,366 43 07/27/07 04:49 PM
by Icelander
* selfishness, creativity, and copyright
( 1 2 all )
moog 1,691 29 06/21/05 06:36 PM
by Le_Canard
* Tools From mother earth
( 1 2 all )
MagicRat 1,930 29 11/30/03 10:28 PM
by Mixomatosis
* Earth=Mother? Ini 1,097 16 12/21/01 05:59 PM
by Ulysees

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,867 topic views. 1 members, 18 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.071 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 16 queries.