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OfflineJonX
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Registered: 06/01/05
Posts: 39
Loc: Montreal, QC
Last seen: 12 years, 7 days
Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+)
    #4672561 - 09/17/05 02:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.saicoir.com/? this sounds great for shrooms, what do you guys say?


--------------------
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1) Scorpios are the most highly sexed of all the signs of the zodiac.
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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: JonX]
    #4672802 - 09/17/05 04:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting. Here's the properties if anyone has a comment:

Quote:

Parameters

First line: regular coir
Second line: enriched coir
pH
5.5 - 6.5
6.0 - 6.5
Salinity mmhos/cm
0.5 - 1.0
0.3 - 0.5
Nitrate Nitrogen (NO3-N) ppm
0.0 - 5.0
0.0 - 8.3
Amonium Nitrogen (NH4-N) ppm
0.0 - 1.0
0.0 - 2.0
Phosphorus (P) ppm
148 - 160
152 - 172
Potassium (K) ppm
5000 - 6100
2800 - 3500
Calcium (Ca) ppm
1100 - 1600
4500 - 5800
Magnesium (Mg) ppm
700 - 900
780 - 910
Boron (B) ppm
0.0 - 0.28
0.0 - 0.14
Iron (Fe) ppm
5.0 - 16
10 - 86
Manganese (Mn) ppm
0.0 - 9.8
11 - 28
Copper (Cu) ppm
0.0 - 1.9
0.0 - 4.0
Zinc (Zn) ppm
1.0 - 5.9
11 - 23
Molybdenum (Mo) ppm
0.0 - 0.2
0.0 - 0.2
Aluminum (Al) ppm
0.1 - 0.3
0.1 - 0.3
Sodium (Na) meq/l
3.0 - 3.5
1.0 - 1.5
Chlorides (Cl) meq/l
3.0 - 3.2
1.0 - 1.3
Bulk Density (lbs/yd3)
610
620




--------------------
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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4673952 - 09/17/05 02:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't really look any better to me, you'd still have to add more calcium carbonate to get that pH up. Nothing else seems significantly different.

Oh, this is a great reference for the people who are still claiming that coir is pH neutral.


--------------------
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I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: mycofile]
    #4674364 - 09/17/05 04:43 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed. Coir is closer to neutral than peat, but then again, coir has just about nothing in common with peat. Coir may be fairly nutrient free as far as plants are concerned, but it has plenty of nutes that fungi love. I've spawned rye into pure coir, and had results as well or better than spawning to cow manure. I think most of us by now add gypsum to our substrates(if not we should) so the calcium is added at that time.

My biggest gripe with coir is the cost. It's much more expensive than other ingredients that do as well or better job. Perhaps if one lives in an area where coconuts are produced it is cheaper, but for us city dwellers that must go to the hydro or pet store, there are other substrate ingredients that are better and cheaper. After a few years of experimenting, I've purchased the last brick of coir I intend to unless I move to a desert island in the tropics.
RR


--------------------
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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4674515 - 09/17/05 05:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the Magnesium level is a bit too high for me there is enough there to supress mycellial growth
and I never liked the micoflora that lives in coir
if you sterialize it and add plenty of lime and activated charcoal you could call it a proper casing
but its less expensive to go with pasterized peat and lime, tried and true, what to do?


Edited by noxy (09/17/05 05:37 PM)


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OfflineKotton
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: noxy]
    #4677597 - 09/18/05 02:40 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I hear coir is hard to find for some people and even expensive. Dont look foor coir in the huge pet stores. I found that they always carry it in reptile stores. Coco coir is the bedding snakes need ! So how can they not have it. They place i go sells three huge bricks for 13 dollars, 1 brick can yeild a 5 gallon bucket full of it. Good luck people.


--------------------
:scaryshroom:  :lovemeds::scaryshroom:


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: Kotton]
    #4678012 - 09/18/05 05:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think that mg level is anywhere near high enough to cause trouble.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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InvisiblePinback
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: mycofile]
    #4678059 - 09/18/05 05:29 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I agree. In my (and others) experience, coco coir tends to get a bit of overlay rather than suppressing growth.


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Offlinethecazz723
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: Holydiver]
    #4678353 - 09/18/05 07:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Parts Per million....not sure how to relate that to mEq per liter (Like the sodium and chlorides). Any chance you could tell me the mEq per liter for phos and potassium??


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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: thecazz723]
    #4678554 - 09/18/05 08:09 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

well 1 meq/L = 50ppm CaCO3 relating to alkilinity in the measurement of sodium and clorides

you usually would not relate phos and potasium to meq/L
but 1ppm is equall to 1 mg / Kg^-1


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4679920 - 09/19/05 12:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

but it has plenty of nutes that fungi love. I've spawned rye into pure coir, and had results as well or better than spawning to cow manure.



Yeah, I don't think I'd use coir for anything other than a substrate ingredient. Personally, I've found that a 50/50 mix of coir and worm castings to be about as good a bulk substrate as anything else I've seen.

But this is really why I'm replying to you Rodger:
Quote:

I think most of us by now add gypsum to our substrates(if not we should) so the calcium is added at that time.



I don't think anywhere near most of us use gypsum in our substrates. In fact the only substrates I can remember ever adding gypsum to were composts I made myself, and peanut hulls. Would you elaborate on why you think gypsum should be added to all substrate? I know it is recomended specifically for some wood loving gourmet species, but I've never thought substrates to be lacking in anything gypsum could provide, I used it more for it's structural properties (like to keep the peanut hulls lighter, or to make a casing mix "agregate"). What do you think it offers for say cubensis or pans?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: mycofile]
    #4681043 - 09/19/05 08:43 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

well, coir is comparable to peat in a lot of ways except for high potassium and magnesium and water retension curves and porosity and particle size and, the list goes on
all I can say is that trials for the department of agraculture that I have been privey to, show lower yeilds using coir vs. peat and the commercial mushroom farmers around the world are not using coco coir based on the results of those trials
in an effort to find a replacement for peat, nothing has yet been found or formulated that works as well

and Ive only used Gypsum aka Calcium Sulfate in phase 1 composting
never in the substate directly and even then not very often
what would be the point of adding it to the substrate? other than to lock up excess water? or as Mycofile suggests, "to agragate" the mix


Edited by noxy (09/19/05 08:54 AM)


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OfflineMobius_Strip
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: mycofile]
    #4682646 - 09/19/05 05:50 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps RR is refering to the practice of adding gypsom to grain substrates to keep them from sticking together. It makes it a lot easier to shake your jars and bags to disperse the mycelium.


--------------------
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: Mobius_Strip]
    #4683849 - 09/19/05 10:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Nope. Try it in all your manure/compost recipies. Gypsum will help with the flushes. It has calcium and sulphur, which are both essential for good fruitbody development. I use it in the coffee/water I soak the rye berries in, then use it again in the compost and manure I spawn to. I even put some in the water I pasteurize straw in, so the straw can soak up a bit. I use it at about ten percent by volume of manure. Ten cups of manure, one cup of gypsum. Give it a try. I've used it for years...just thought everybody did...guess not, lol.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Invisiblenoxy
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #4684122 - 09/19/05 11:19 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

calcium buffers are definatly necessary to grow agaricus

what about chalk ? ever try using chalk with gypsum ? the extra carbon and oxygen should be good too

Optimal substate mixtures seem to vary a bit from strain to strain as well


Edited by noxy (09/19/05 11:25 PM)


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: noxy]
    #4689721 - 09/21/05 12:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I actually like coir. Its CHEAP. If you dont think its cheap your not buying it at the right place or your just thinking wrong. LOL
Its simple. ready to go. May not be completly optimal but it works pretty damn well. Sure as hell takes away any guesswork.

I get 5kg blocks (thats about 20 bricks) for $13 do you have any idea how much coir that is when hydrated? Its around 70 liters.


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Edited by EquilibriuM (09/21/05 01:14 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #4691117 - 09/21/05 06:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

>I get 5kg blocks (thats about 20 bricks)

No, its about 9 bricks (a brick makes 7-9 liters). You can find cheap bales from hydroponics stores, but otherwise, if you must buy from a petshop, it gets expensive. And around here, a 70 liter bale is 17 bucks. WIth peat moss, it will cost less then 10 dollars for 70 liters, and it has some lime added (though I always buffer it more).


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4696594 - 09/22/05 08:00 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

actually its 20 250gram bricks. you must be talking about 500 gram bricks? in either case 70 liters for 13 bux is cheap plus its around 6.5 ph. holds a shit load of water and is better for the planet.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #4714846 - 09/26/05 04:37 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I have never seen 250 gram bricks. There are 2 sizes I'e seen, the smaller "bricks" and the larger "bales". Bricks are found at the pet store and expand to 7-9 liters. Thats this size:
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=GMCGBR&eq=&Tp=

And then the bales makes 65-70 liters and its this size:
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=GMCGB5&eq=&Tp=

So your talking 8 or 9 times the amount, and weight. Either way, price varies in places and peat is a cheaper option, for some, or at least just as cheap. And even if its a few dollars more for a 100 liters, that casing mix will case a dozen square feet, and over that you'll see a much better pinset and yield over peat compared to coir. For a small time grow it might not matter, but there are reasons to choose peat over coir, just as there are reasons to choose coir over peat.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Calcium Enriched Coco Coir (Ca2+) [Re: scatmanrav]
    #4717801 - 09/27/05 01:13 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

"there are reasons to choose peat over coir, just as there are reasons to choose coir over peat. "

Agreed. :smile:


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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