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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT!
    #4670615 - 09/16/05 06:18 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Insurance has always been rife with fraud. Take in lots; pay out a little, then default in times of crisis.

Homeowner's insurance does not cover hurricane damage.

Now some major players are using some legal technicality saying that hurricane insurance covers DIRECT damage (wind only & falling trees?) not flooding.

These guys are the real looters and should be shot.

Naturally, ther lobbies and connections are so powerful that we will not hear one tiny peep out of Bush on this unless he is forced to by enormous public pressure.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4670633 - 09/16/05 06:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

My understanding is that hurricane damage policies cover wind damage but not flooding. It is possible to buy flood insurance as well, but the premiums for such insurance in New Orleans is so high few people bothered to do so.

It should be a pretty easy thing to decide -- read the relevant clause of the policy in question and see what it says.



Phred


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Phred]
    #4670664 - 09/16/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

What do you think would happen if the majority of householders had the maximum level of insurance with all the i's dotted and tees crossed? Do you think they would all be paid in full with zero legal wiggling from the insurer?

Me no think so.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4670672 - 09/16/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Insurers See Storm as Two Separate Events
By JOE BEL BRUNO, AP

NEW YORK (Sept. 9) - Insurers are potentially facing billions of dollars in losses from Hurricane Katrina claims, and battle lines have begun forming as carriers argue they aren't responsible for flooding excluded from standard homeowners policies.

The majority of homes in areas slammed by the hurricane have policies that cover wind and rain damage, but relatively few had extra insurance to cover flooding. Insurers are posturing to limit the amount of damages by saying massive flooding in storm-ravaged New Orleans is a separate event from the hurricane itself.

This distinction could save insurers billions of dollars more from a catastrophe billed as the costliest natural disaster ever to face the industry. Some carriers have even adopted the phrase "The Great New Orleans Flood" in an effort to make that distinction more tangible.

"If there is a question at some point as to whether the industry should be held responsible for flood insurance, that would change the whole mechanism of how insurance works," said Loretta Worters, a vice president with the Insurance Information Institute, a trade organization sponsored by the property & casualty industry.

"I understand their plight, and insurers have their adjustors out and see what's going on, but we are compassionate up to the point of the policy," she said, "but, that's where FEMA has to step in."

Risk Management Solutions, a California-based consulting firm that models the financial impact of storms, said Friday that Katrina and its aftermath would cause at least $125 billion in economic losses, and a large chunk of that is expected to come from flooding in New Orleans. However, RMS said the disaster may cost insurers $40 billion to $60 billion in claims, up from an earlier estimate of $20 billion to $35 billion.

RMS said that $15 billion to $25 billion of its new forecast is insured losses due to flooding. Only about 40 percent of homeowners in Louisiana have insurance protecting property from floods - most of them because mortgage lenders require such policies for the term of their loans.

However, the amount of claims could skyrocket if insurers are forced to treat uninsured flood damage as an offshoot to standard homeowners insurance. That's one reason property and casualty insurers are telling Wall Street damages will be limited, so long as they are restricted to just wind-related claims.

"Although we believe the economic loss from the Great New Orleans Flood will exceed economic losses from Hurricane Katrina, our preliminary analysis suggests that the flood losses are substantially uninsured," said Bermuda-based Aspen Insurance Holdings Ltd. in a statement released on Thursday. "We expect that Aspen's share of the industry's insured flood losses will be modest compared to Hurricane Katrina."

The federal government began offering flood insurance in 1968 to help relieve some of the financial burden faced by the nation's insurers. Flood insurance offered by the government - but sold through individual insurers - covers up to $250,000 for a home and $100,000 for personal property.

"This is an event of unprecedented complexity, and there are very few ways to look for comparable events in history that has created such enormous losses," said Brian Owens, a London-based member of Risk Management Solutions' catastrophe response team. "We modeled this separately, but we can't say if it was two events. That will come down to discussions between insurers and policyholders, and there will be interesting times ahead."

Assuming estimates are correct, Hurricane Katrina would cause insurance losses greater than the $20.1 billion linked to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the $20.5 billion associated with Hurricane Andrew. Like in past disasters, the insurance industry is expected to write-off a large amount of losses through reinsurance contracts.

The battle brewing over how insurance companies might treat the catastrophe is already reminiscent to how the industry handled Sept. 11. Larry Silverstein, who owned the lease on the World Trade Center, tried to collect on his insurance policy - but insurers argued the two attacks were a single event to limit the payout.

Silverstein eventually won the dispute after a jury decided the plane crashes were separate events. A similar lawsuit would be the only way to compel insurance companies to pay out on all the Katrina-related damages, and it would take state insurance commissions to enact further changes.

State insurance commissioners are warning carriers that they must prove that damage was caused by water and not by wind if they deny a claim. Mississippi Insurance Commissioner George Dale said in a bulletin released Wednesday that insurance companies must act to ensure consumers are treated fairly and receive compensation promptly.

"I expect and believe that where there is any doubt, that doubt will be resolved in favor of finding coverage on behalf of the insured," Dale said in the statement.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 1,740
Loc: Here, there and everywher...
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4670674 - 09/16/05 06:35 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hardly. The people don't have flood insurance. Ask these people how much of their hurricane insurance is paying for their cars. If you want a policy that covers something, you add it in the policy. You can't come after the fact and say "Oh golly, it's such a big disaster! You saw it all over the news! Please cover me for something I didn't add into my policy!".


Also, most insurance pay-outs in flood areas like this come from government-subsidised flood insurance because no insurance carrier wants to provide it. I'm not going to criticize an insurance company for not providing flood insurance at an "affordable" rate for a town thats freakin 10 feet underwater and in hurricane alley.


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"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Invisibletak
geo's henchman
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 3,758
Loc: nowhereland
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4670695 - 09/16/05 06:41 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
These guys are the real looters and should be shot.





Amen brother.


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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Invisibletak
geo's henchman
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 3,758
Loc: nowhereland
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: tak]
    #4670704 - 09/16/05 06:45 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I agree if they didnt have flood insurance, fuck them. I know how expensive flood insurance in N.O. is, and im sure most the people there do aswell, thats why they dont get it. If they didnt get it, they are fucked, and deserve to be fucked. Dont live under water table without flood insurance, and bitch about it.

Still think insurance companies should be shot. And I am sure they are still going to fuck the people with flood insurance, cause not everyone is dirt poor, and alot insurance money is still to go out.


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The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: tak]
    #4671615 - 09/16/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

New Orleans did pretty well in the hurricane. It was only when the flood walls failed and the city flooded out that the damage came. Say what you want, the flood did the damage.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4671790 - 09/17/05 12:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Some legal technicality?

When I bought my house it was quite clear that hurricane insurance didn't cover flooding. If I wanted flood insurance it would have been extra. A large paragraph in bold print that you must initial acknowledging your declining of flood insurance is hardly a technicality.

No fraud, just dumbasses. Luckily, nothing needs to be worried about cause they all have a rich brother who's gonna make everything allright.


It's interesting to note that you feel that the executives of one of the most regulated industries in America - they are basically instructed to what their profit margin can be - deserve to be shot (and presumably die) for abiding by the contract they've committed to with a person. Their integrity to honor their legal obligations and likely pay out more in claims than that person has paid in premiums is a capital offence to you?


What should happen when people break the law?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: JesusChrist]
    #4671903 - 09/17/05 12:40 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Understand that this issue is being raised, not in New Orleans, but in Mississippi in areas largely above the flood plain. Remember, the damage there was due mainly to hurricane winds sweeping water into homes and businesses. Whether the water damage was created directly or indirectly by winds, I'm sorry- fork the hell up. The "floods" did not create themselves and were not the result of rainfall. The water damage was created by a wind known as a "hurricane"- it's a package deal.

The insurance companies should pay out, but being the weasels they are they won't. Fortunately, the Ms attorney general is trying to make them do the right thing.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Edited by Jellric (09/17/05 12:54 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #4671923 - 09/17/05 12:48 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It's interesting to note that you feel that the executives of one of the most regulated industries in America - they are basically instructed to what their profit margin can be

Really? I have filed one claim in 30 years when my car was totally vandalized and got zip ($0.00); have a clean driving record and my (forced) auto insurance is at a record high. Basically it is another form of private taxation (sanctioned theft) against my will.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblekrishnamurti
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 382
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Jellric]
    #4671987 - 09/17/05 01:00 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

im thinking with Red Cross having every facet of the media and entertainment industry advertising to donate, along with the money they made from people after 9/11, they should have more fucking money than they know what to do with so how about they take on a major portion of giving these people homes again? what the fuck are they good for if they dont?

or do they use up all their funds taking black and white pictures of starving african kids?


--------------------
I'll see you down in Guantanamo Bay

Donate spores to FSRC or suffer the consequences!*

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4672075 - 09/17/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=349423&seqNum=4&rl=1


Yes really.

In every instance I have seen people are not actually forced to carry insurance only the ability to display financial responsibility. Pay to play.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #4672163 - 09/17/05 01:34 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Proof of current insurance is MANDATORY in Nevada.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: krishnamurti]
    #4672367 - 09/17/05 02:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

im thinking with Red Cross having every facet of the media and entertainment industry advertising to donate, along with the money they made from people after 9/11, they should have more fucking money than they know what to do with so how about they take on a major portion of giving these people homes again? what the fuck are they good for if they dont?

or do they use up all their funds taking black and white pictures of starving african kids?






Actually, kids with lemonade stands should carry the burden of 99% of the costs. That way, only those who choose to give to their fellow citizens will have to alter their lifestyle one little bit in these United States of America.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Jellric]
    #4672384 - 09/17/05 02:19 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I heard Halliburton and Allstate and Chevron each donated $1...


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSycronica
Seeker
Registered: 06/15/05
Posts: 376
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Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4672509 - 09/17/05 02:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Insurance companies are the modern mafia.


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Think for yourself. Question authority.

Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice.

You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time.


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OfflineMagicalMystery
turn off yourmind

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Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: Swami]
    #4672635 - 09/17/05 03:23 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

If you don't pay your taxes, you get turned into Waco or Ruby Ridge. If you cancel your insurance, you can't drive a car. When you walk in somewhere, ask for a service, are provided the service and pay for it, it's not "theft"


--------------------

"Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest."
From the Declaration of the Continental Congress

"We can have peace and security only as long as we band together to preserve that most priceless possession, our inheritance of European blood."
Charles A. Lindbergh,"Aviation, Geography, and Race", Reader's Digest, Nov. 1939

"We must secure the existance of our people and a future for White children."
David Lane


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: MagicalMystery]
    #4673189 - 09/17/05 08:35 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

When you walk in somewhere, ask for a service, are provided the service and pay for it, it's not "theft"




If I walked up to you and told you to either buy a service from me or go to jail (assume I have the power to make this happen) would you consider that theft?


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Insurance companies step-up to the plate - NOT! [Re: cb9fl]
    #4673194 - 09/17/05 08:47 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


If I walked up to you and told you to either buy a service from me or go to jail (assume I have the power to make this happen) would you consider that theft?




How is this relevant? Am I also forcing you to drive a car?
If you wish to operate a 3,000 pound hunk of metal at speeds up to 65 mph you must prove reasonable proficiency and the financial wherewithall to pay your victims when you fuck up. Otherwise, walk.


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