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InvisibleSkunkhuffer
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Registered: 06/29/05
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Hypothetically, a possibility?
    #4669299 - 09/16/05 01:09 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Okay, so assume you average 4 flushes per casing before is spent of nutes. Could you just add a layer of sterilized/pasteurized substrate layer on the top of the casing, and have the Myc grow upwards into the sub and colonize it? Seems like if A)It's sterile enough to do so, and B)the old substrate (colonized SPENT section) below the new substrate layer doesnt rot, then couldnt you just keep going.

Has anyone tried this, or have experience with something similar?

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Offlineready2go
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4669333 - 09/16/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

That my work but you really need to have more surface area to myc ratio. If the cakes are spent, in cake or cased form, you can break it up into small pieces and spawn it into your substrait mix and go from there.


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4669342 - 09/16/05 01:20 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Someone just asked this question today in another thread. I believe the answer was no, because the myc will stop trying to colonize once it fruits. Look through Agar's posts and try to find the one about thistle seed. He was talking about using it like SpawnMate, which increases the size and number of flushes by providing an extended protein release. You add it during spawning. I think this would be a better way to achieve the same goal.


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Offlineready2go
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: FooMan]
    #4669449 - 09/16/05 01:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I love it when ppl agree with me. :chugbeer:


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InvisibleSkunkhuffer
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: ready2go]
    #4669554 - 09/16/05 02:02 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Looked, but didnt find anything concrete pointing to time release nute. Anyway, I suppose even if you did add a time release nute to a substrate, it still wouldn't be the same as this.

Anyone tried this setup before?


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Offlinecoda
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4669697 - 09/16/05 02:38 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

i think a problem lies also with substrate depth. I believe there can be too much substrate, a problem also may arise with heat. As bulk growers know, and anyone who keeps up with bulk cult, the larger your substrate is the more heat it generates. Colonization of mass quantities of poo may mean too much heat production would just kill the myc.


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4669777 - 09/16/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Myc will exhaust itself during that process of replicating itself over and over again. It may work for awhile, but it will probably be less productive each time you do it.  HERE is a better thread for what I was talking about before with the thistle seed. Took me awhile to find it :blush:


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InvisibleFooManM
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: coda]
    #4669780 - 09/16/05 02:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

coda said:
Colonization of mass quantities of poo may mean too much heat production would just kill the myc.




It would sort of be like composting the myc :crazy:


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Offlinemushisgood_420
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: FooMan]
    #4669800 - 09/16/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

you are risking MAD contam's in that sense... :P


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OfflineBataviaVakereli
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: mushisgood_420]
    #4669856 - 09/16/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Let me tell you an experience that may be helpful. I took a small amount of myc from a WBS jar that was left over and crumpled in a cup. The myc colonized well and in a few days time I had a nice casing in there. I just left it alone and let it do it's course. No casing layer or anything. It fruited and I got about a 2.5 grams dry. I took the myc out, broke it up and dunked it. 24 hours later I drained it and left the broken up chunks in the cup figuring it would recolonize and I'd have a new casing out of it. It didn't recolonize and instead just fruited again from the broken chunks.

So, in short, I don't think it will work becauase I don't think it'll recolonize after a flush.


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InvisibleSkunkhuffer
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: BataviaVakereli]
    #4670394 - 09/16/05 05:08 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I think what I'm hearing is alot of speculation. Maybe some day I'll try it, but it wont be any time soon.

Maybe there could be some way you could turn each section into "building block" form. I think I'd like to try it. Maybe I'll make another animation of what I'm talking about.


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OfflineBamaman
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4670740 - 09/16/05 06:57 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Skunkhuffer said:
I think what I'm hearing is alot of speculation.




If that's what you think you hear....then your just not listening.

1. When you keep adding uncolonized substrate to colonized...you get high comtam risk. You cannot keep piling the layers on like that and not expect the contam risk to increase with each layer.

2. Just piling a new layer of substrate is not a proper colonization technique. You are supposed to take a COMPLETELY colonized sub and break it up and mix it thoroughly among the uncolonized. Even if you do it with this EFFICIENT mannner you can still expect a week+ to recolonize the new sub. Just piling it on could probably lead you to expect colonization 2-4 times longer.

3. Read up on the life cycle of mushrooms as explained in that link...you will see that you are trying to force an extra stage of colonization after fruiting. The mycelium grows until given the pinning triggers then it fruits. It pins again, and then fruits again, etc...until the mycelium is exhausted. After this process is started and/or it's exhausted it doesn't automatically go into colonization mode simply because you want it to and have piled more sub on top of it.

4. Maximum sub depth is recommended at 5" and optimal at 3"-4". It would be much wiser to take all of that sub you have and make separate trays of optimal depth.

Should I keep going....?


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Offlineready2go
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Bamaman]
    #4670851 - 09/16/05 07:41 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Nope, you're on point.


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Offlinehardwaters
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Skunkhuffer]
    #4671119 - 09/16/05 09:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Well I'm on my 6th flush, 4 oz dried so far. I would just start out fresh. But next time I'm going to try to time it a little better. Now I have 4 colonized jars in the fridge waitng for the subtrate to be spent. :yesnod:


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Invisiblebackupwards
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: hardwaters]
    #4671261 - 09/16/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

so you all really don't think that you could do this. hmm, spent casings inside that have fruited, taken and mixed with fresh poo colonized and refruited. flushed cakes mixed with a substrate and refruited. why not mix some more substrate in with an existing colony, let it recolonize and fruit.
maybe have some possibility? could be, give it a try. sure do need to make sure you are sterile about your procedures though, agree with you all about contam risks.

:peace:


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: Bamaman]
    #4671473 - 09/16/05 10:54 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bamaman said:
4. Maximum sub depth is recommended at 5" and optimal at 3"-4".



This isn't true. There is no "maximum" substrate depth as long as you can keep the substrate from becoming anearobic. This condition occurs in standard beds somewhere between 12-18", but can be avoided through various means. 3-4" does work great, but you'd have to give a description of how you load the "optimal" part. I can think of situations where 3-4" isn't enough, and other situations where it would be too much.

I'm being a little nitpicky, just didn't want somebody else reading that and thinking that they couldn't have more than 5" substrate depth. I agree with pretty much everything else you said though.


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OfflineBamaman
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Re: Hypothetically, a possibility? [Re: mycofile]
    #4671601 - 09/16/05 11:30 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It was "recommended" by one of the vets fairly recently here. Scat or RK perhaps, I can't remember precisely who. I just remember that they said that best results was 3-4 inches and that anything over 5 inches was not "recommended". By them at least.

I did not say that deeper subs were not possible, nor did they. But, the "recommended" numbers stuck in my head, (as did the fact that it came from a credible source), since I was about to do my own casing.


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